Hi Paddy thanks for your comprehensive answer, nearly drove myself insane with image searches, identify coin apps and trolling through images online all to no real end but you have given me what i needed to at least look in the right direction and hopefully get a little of the history of these, although as i said in my post that i am not a coin collector i have over the years bought quite a bit of British silver and often wonder where these coins have been and what they have seen (were they at waterloo or in the trenches in WW1?) but up until now my oldest coins are tudor hammered coins so looking forward to using your info to see how old these are, where they are fom and where they have been, thanks again