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NODDY wouldn't pay the ransom.........but clearly you really knew that Chris!

Why do the elephants have big ears.............maybe not this one?

Looks like the canon ball has blasted through the rim and hit the lighthouse on this one!

One of my better purchases on ebay, open auction, 5 bids, got it for £23. Actual ebay picture and one I took of the coin when it arrived.

I see that 4 different bidders got caught by that fake 1843, which sold for over £100. Like you say Mike, 'caveat emptor'.

... and I suspect that the edge knocks and cleaning have been deliberately done in an attempt to make it look authentic.

I see that someone has now bid on this, amazing! https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1843-Victoria-Copper-Penny/164249753649

Thanks both. I have emailed you those 1858/7 pictures you wanted to see Mike.

Sorry, I think I have been an idiot. The picture of the 1858 which Richard showed above is the same as the type pictured on MG's website which he names CP 1858 G. I now think that I have mistakenly given the link to the other forum, saying that it discussed this date variety, when in fact it was discussing another very similar, but DIFFERENT 1858 overdate...….. which is the one often seen paired with the re-cut large rose reverse variety. That date also has a distinct 1/1 whereas the CP 1858 G does not. Unfortunately the pictures on that discussion have now been removed as it was so long ago (2009). In an effort to try to redeem myself I show below the two different 1858 overdates, so we can again discuss 9/8's, 8/3's or whatever.

I think that when MG was suggesting a small 9 back in the 2009 discussion he was probably thinking of the small numeral 9 on the penny, i.e. his 1859B as per this image....but the halfpenny 9 may perhaps be an equally good bet!

This date style was discussed in another forum back in 2009, picture of the actual date now removed but text makes interesting reading http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=6&threadid=712566&STARTPAGE=1

I could put a copy of the article on here if someone in authority could confirm I wouldn't be in breach of any copyright

Lux.... the alluring world of French roses, each flower carefully picked.....seriously though, had more sushine in the month of May than my panels have ever recorded in any previous calendar month.... but now I need a holiday....... a few wet days makes you quickly forget

This is the variety which MG described in the Spinks May 2010 circular as most likely being an 1858/2. It is distinctive by the die flaws which commence along the bottom of the numerals, and then further develops along the top and also towards the border. I have never seen one without any numeral flaws, so would be interesting to know if anyone has one like that.

Repaired V in VICTORIA on 1848Ad

I believe this is Plain Date Gouby Style Ad. Later strikes on this variety develop the die flaw which can be seen on your own piece (nice coin by the way) running through the VIC legend. This flaw also runs through the bottom of a repaired V in VICTORIA as shown below.

….and the DEI legend features

Gouby has identified two doubled variations of the Bramah 10c (his 1848C) on his website. He names these as types Ca and Cb, and I believe Richard's doubled example is a Ca, same as the one in my collection, 2nd picture below. There are many examples of fully doubled dates in the Victorian Copper Penny series. Whilst these are interesting to look at I prefer not to think of them as true varieties because, unlike the man made repair of the 8/7, the fully doubled date has occurred as part of the striking process. Both the non doubled 1848C and the double 1848Ca are, therefore, I believe from the same die pairing. So, for example, on the 1848C, Ca and Cb I think you will find that they all have identical other legend features such as the picture of DEI which I also attach in an additional post immediately below so I can clearly show the protrusions .

Yes Mike, Gouby type D I have found to be far less common. Here are close ups of the actual overdates on these 4 examples for reference.

Hi Mike, On Page 104 of Bramah for the 1848/7 he says:- 104 ENGLISH REGAL COPPER COINS 10b. ALTERED DATE. 0. - The die has been altered from 1847. The 7 shows very plainly beneath the 8, its up-stroke dividing the lower loop of 8 into two unequal parts, that on the left being much the smaller. 10c. ALTERED DATE. 0. - The die has been altered from 1847. The 7 does not show so conspicuously as it does on No. 10b. and its up-stroke divides the lower loop of 8 into two fairly equal portions. Bramah appears, however, to have missed the type where the 7 is firmly towards the back of the 8. That is the type which Gouby has documented as his type 1848D On the other hand MG has not documented on his website the type where the 7 is firmly towards the front of the 8, which Bramah appears to have documented as his type 10b. I attach below close ups of these dates from my own collection. I also believe there are two slightly different types of Bramah 10b, type with the 7 towards the front. These are my top two pictures, and you will notice amongst other things the depth of the feet on the numeral 1's are quite different. Hope this helps with the 1848/7's. I think I have also found 8 different varieties of 1858/7 and can send pictures of those too if you wish, although the 500Mb image limit may not be enough to show the detail clearly on the forum.

Yes, it's definitely worth taking a look at Michael G's website. Your 1853 top picture is his Style A (Italic 5), and the bottom picture is his Style C (I think this is the most common type of 5 in 1853). Like the 1858's there are many minor variations of both these types in 1853...……………….and they both appear on PT and OT, although very difficult to find a decent grade Style A on a PT. Seen less frequently is Gouby 1853 Style B, with yet another type of numeral 5, as per the picture below. Looks a bit like this 5 is on holiday doing the Rumba. I actually booked a holiday today, but not until June 6th 2022. I thought I had better make an effort, because clearly the most important thing for the UK economy to survive (and perhaps the rest of Europe for that matter) is that all the Brits can go on holiday again.

Hi Mike, All the 1858/6's I have seen have particular legend features which suggests that there was a single die pairing for this particular overdate. However, 1858 small dates which are NOT 8/6 are seen with a variety of minor date variations; the 5 and second 8 being in slightly different positions with respect to the border teeth...….also the second 8 is often seen struck over an earlier underneath 8. I attach a picture to show some of these minor variations, which is the best I can do with the 500Mb limitation. The date at the top is the same as the one on Gouby's website, his Style E. The one at the bottom, which is also an 1858 small date, he references as Style F because of the slanted colon dots after DEF on the reverse. This date style is also the type which has a large 'Re-cut' Rose on the reverse. If anyone wishes to have higher definition pictures of any of this then please PM me.

I see that London Coins incorrectly attributed that lot as an 1898B, which is of course the type with the different numeral 8 font on the 2nd 8. Should have been an Ab as you say Pete

Thanks Mike, I'm going to phone the revenue in the first instance as Pete has recommended, and take it from there.

Thanks again Mike. The lot was for 2 banknotes, produced in 1971, so only 49 years old. Both of them are no longer legal tender, so collectors items. Just wondering if the 'less than 100 years' may cause me an issue with the 'antiquities' definition.