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Bronze & Copper Collector
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Posts posted by Bronze & Copper Collector
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An excellent example of a GB coin that is widely conterfeited, and could certainly benefit from certification....
If this piece were counterfeit, it is likely contemporary, and collectible thus. I have Scottish counterfeits from the time and they are more interesting than the authentic coins.
Contemporary counterfeits are highly collectible, but I don't think that this is one of them.
And, even if Contemporary Counterfeits ARE collectable, they are CERTAINLY NOT as valuable as a genuine one........
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Yes, point taken but note that high grade examples of the 1905 2/6 are notorious for being counterfeited. The other point is that if you did have a choice mint state example that you felt was genuine and was certified with essetially a warrantee (sp?), would you not feel a little more comfortable? And if not you, what about your descendents (and remember we are talking about a coin worth possibly 3000 pounds or more)? Also more recent milled bits in the copper/bronze and silver series with mint lustre are vulnerable to many environmental changes.I also understand and agree with your point that we ought to know our coins, but in our smugness do we not also assume that we are correct, and are we always so? Still, with the majority of coins it seems best to leave them unslabbed.
An excellent example of a GB coin that is widely conterfeited, and could certainly benefit from certification....
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Again, I'll say that I'm not a fan of the micrograding frenzy here in the USA...
However, here in the USA, there are many fakes that can be made with the addition or removal of a mint mark... Some have fooled even the experts.... modern technology has improved the capabilities of both the coiner and the counterfeiter.... It is there that I feel that the MAJOR (not the fly-by-night) services provide an important commodity.....
Admittedly, this is NOT so vital a point with GB coinage, where a firm knowledge of die combinations can easily prove an altered coin as false, but it is important with many US coins and series....
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Slabbed coins to me are too similar to Modern Royal mint issues.(ie no interest whatsoever)The only time I would buy a slab is to break it open and introduce it into my collection.
Obviously in the US you have idiots (IMO) who are willing to pay huge sums for someone elses opinion of a 1 point higher grade.
Still it takes all sorts.
Hey Buddy leave them RAW coins to me.
I basically agree insofar as the GRADING apsect of certification is involved, HOWEVER, I DO feel that the certification companies (albeit only the better ones {PCGS, NGC, ANACS}) DO provide an essential service to the COLLECTOR (not investor), by certifying that the coin in question is GENUINE.... Of vital importance here in the USA, where there are MANY coins that are worth in the $1000's even in LOW GRADE......
I care very little for the condition ascribed to a coin, so long as I am happy with it, but reat much easier knownign that the rare coin in question is genuine... A knowledgeable collector will generally SUSPECT that a coin has been altered or counterfeited, but with modern technological advances, the average collector does NOT have the equipment to confirm those suspicions, whereas the MAJOR RELIABLE sevices do. I emphasize MAJOR, because I have seen NON-GENUINE coins certified as genuine by the lesser sevices.
I emphasize that a knowledge of grading and conterfeiting/altering is important to any collector; ALWAYS buy the coin and not the holder (be happy with the coin itself), BUT I still feel that the MAJOR services DO provide a vital service nontheless..... (the non-grading portion)
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What is a worsening situation, is that buyers (I'm not saying collectors deliberately), usually investors, who have little knowledge or interest in numismatics itself, buy these high grade and high priced otherwise common coins, simply for what is printed on the label.
Every true collector knows that grading is a subjective matter, and that at different times, with different graders, the coin can and often is graded differently. It has been shown as well, that the same coin, shown to the same grader, at a different time, can come back with a different grade.
I have never been a great fan of this ultimate grading scheme, however I do feel that there is still a need for certification services. They provide a means of preserving your coins in inert holders (if done correctly), and moreso, to provide a means to certify that coin is genuine. With modern technological abilities being applied towards a proliferation of counterfeit and/or altered date rarities (much more common here in the USA, than in GB), this, to me anyway, is a more vital service that they provide...
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You mean Lauer in Nuremburg, and those were all small toy coins as far as I know. The fake 'half sov' in the first post looks like it could be a Lauer. The Crown could well be a Joseph Moore.I believe that the model crown IS a Joseph Moore.... It could be any Rogers # between 205 and 212... Can't tell from the image, but there are generally a few on Ebay at any given time..... Assuming that it is genuine, which it probably is.... not a rare item......
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I would say yes....
If you lay a transparency of the 2, upside-down over the existing 2, the marks will line up......
Nice find....
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You have me looking at my specimen now, and wondering if this is really an 8/3, or a new variation maybe.... I might have to go and get a better clearer specimen......
Mine has what I think is the lower end of the bottom curl of the 3 visible on the left of the lower loop of the 8... see scans....
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Does anyone have an unambiguous 1858/6 halfpenny - Peck 1547. If so, could they post a close-up of the overstrike please. All of the examples so stated that I have seen have not been clearly so, including the 2 Nicholson pieces which I couldn't reconcile as an underlying 6. I have seen quite a few with something in the left hand recess of the 8, but all I would have described as die defects rather than an overstrike. Thanks.This is a close-up of my 1858/6 half penny
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I just received an email from the Royal Mint (Kevin Clancy as predicted)....
It reads as follows:
From the specifications you give, it is possible that your coin was struck on a blank intended for a Malawi penny. To be absolutely sure, however, we would need to see the coin itself and if you would care to send it to me at the address below I will be glad to arrange for it to be examined and returned to you together with a report of our findings.
My next question is: How much time does something like this usually take, and do they really return the coin???
Thanks
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I have a return receipt for my email.... It was read on August 30..... No Acknowledgement however..
Let's see how long it takes to receive a reply... If I receive any at all....
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Were you or anyone else ever able to identify the planchet on which this coin was struck?Not as of yet.....
several knowledgeable collectors and dealers have rsuggested that I contact the Royal Mint. I have emailed them last week, I have return receipt that it was read, but have hod no response of any sort as yet.....
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Here is a comparison of both 3's... I was not aware of another variety.....
There were only 2 varieties listed in the 2005 edition, I don't have the 2006 to compare it to...
Re: the Freeman numbers.... I had noticed in the earlier edition a confusion due to the order of the listings as well as an apparent mislettering of the reverses.... possibly due to using the 1970 edition... there were some changes made in the 1985 edition.....
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Here's hoping that someone can help me out....
I have a 1967 penny struck on a 6.3 gram planchet... smaller than a penny planchet and larger than a half penny planchet
It appears to be 28-29 mm in diameter.... also slightly thinner (maybe 3/4 normal ??)
See attached scans.... one each of obverse & reverse... the 3rd is of a normal penny on the bottom, this coin in the middle, and a normal half penny on top....
I would assume that this coin was struck on a planchet intended for a foreign coin that was being struck at the Royal Mint.... Does anyone have any ideas as to what this planchet was originally intended for????
Thanks
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Additionally and simplest, on the reverse of 1922, the center trident tine touches a border tooth.... On the reverse of 1927, the central trident tine is below the border tooth...
see attached images....
Type of 1922 ------Type of 1927
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I was re-examining my F-279's and found an overdate.... which I had not seen on a reverse F as yet....
see scan below of 1861 F-279 Last 1 over Lower 1 .... a very distinct lower 1 is visible.....
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A few hours behind indeed...... but you still caught me with enough time to spare....
MANY THANKS for the kind sentiment.....
Regards,
Gary
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I'm not sure if I have attrributed these correctly, but one sure looks blunter than the other....
I think I have types 1, 2 and 4
see attached scans......
opinions????
I'll list them in separate posts as the names and attributions are not apparent....
I've edited the images with the type so that you can see which I think is which.....
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I have seen and/or owned a few (2 or 3) examples of Obverse 5 WITHOUT the flaw.... ALL were 1860 however......
Freeman even mentions that MOST obverse 5's exhibit this flaw.... (most NOT all)
Possibly the flaw developed early in 1860 and carried on into 1861???? a weak premise that an unflawed obverse 5 from 1861 would easily disprove.....
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I found an old close-up of the F-278 that I had sold 2 years ago.....
see attached scan.....
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Neither of my 2 F-268A's appear to have a recut 6.....
However 1 of my 4 F-278's have a recut 6 as well as a specimen that I sold awhile back.....
and 2 of them appear to have a stub of a previous 1 protruding beneath the last 1 ...
see scans...
None appear to have a recut R though..... nor a first 1/1
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I believe I might have found a lower grade, yet identifiable Obverse 6, Reverse B Half Penny......
Freeman does not list an Obverse 6 for 1860, although Iain Dracott does mention a specimen (listed as Unique)....
I have attached images for your perusal......
Obviously still not as good as direct examination, yet I believe it is clear enough......
Possible, although the only clear incuse lines are on the bottom 4th. The flaw in the forehead also raises questions as this is obv. 5. Do you have a well struck mint state obv.6 to compare with? I only have an EF and on that piece, although it fits obv. 6 in all other respects there is no sign of incuse lines for the leaf vein at all on the upper leaf of the 4th group. There is however a trace of raised leaf vein - sort of obv.5 3/4 if you see what I mean. There is only a trace of wear to the highest points and none on that leaf, so rubbing isn't the problem.
True enough, but I am reasonably sure that this is NOT an Obverse 5 because it does not have the scalloped top middle leaf that EVERY Obverse 5 (flawed or not- I have seen examples of both) that I have seen exhibits, and that I have NEVER seen on any obverse other than an Obverse 5..... (see scan)...
Unless of course, this is some interim Obverse 6 variant, that eventually became the obverse 6 in 1861.... I don't have the obverse 6 coin mentioned in Iain Dracotts article for comparison..... It's possible that it is some sort of hybrid obverse spanning the 2 years (1860-1861)
I would certainly suspect that this coin is closer to the Obverse 6 than to any other obverse, so given the information available, and the condition of the coin, I think that I would have to classify it as an Obverse 6 (maybe with an asterisk denoting it as a possible minor variant or precurser to the accepted obverse 6)
And again, photographs can not substitute for direct examination....
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I believe I might have found a lower grade, yet identifiable Obverse 6, Reverse B Half Penny......
Freeman does not list an Obverse 6 for 1860, although Iain Dracott does mention a specimen (listed as Unique)....
I have attached images for your perusal......
Obviously still not as good as direct examination, yet I believe it is clear enough......
Grading Madness and Many $$$$ in the US of A
in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
Posted · Edited by Bronze & Copper Collector
The only 3 that I have ANY CONFIDENCE in are: PCGS, NGC, and ANACS...... They at least attempt to be consistent...
Also, all to often, I have seen counterfeit or altered coins being certified with the other companies....
Mis-attributed coins, especially WORLD coins, happens to all, although moreso to the non big 3 firms....