Gold Sovereign

[lona]

I have two George 111 gold sovereigns dated 1819 and 1820.

Both are not in excellent condition as they have some verdigree on them.

Anyone any idea what they might be worth?

[Geoff T]

If you really do have an 1819 sovereign then you're sitting on a small fortune - which, I'm afraid to say, suggests that what you have is a fake.

Any chance of a picture?

Geoff

[Chris Perkins]

And verdigris on gold is unheard of too. Perhaps these are brass. We need pictures.

[lona]

Maybe they are brass. I have one dated 1819 and one dated 1820

[Chris Perkins]

That certainly looks like a fake to me, the colour is inconsistant and not at all right for gold. I have a little collection of fakes, so would offer £10 for the pair.

[lona]

I really can't think they are fakes as they have been in the family for generations. Can you tell me were brass coins minted in 1819/1820?

[Sylvester]

I really can't think they are fakes as they have been in the family for generations. Can you tell me were brass coins minted in 1819/1820?

Looks like a contemporary forgery to me.

Only genuine coins minted in the whiole period 1816-1820 were gold and silver coins.

The only base metal used for coins at this time was copper, and the period 1808-1820 was devoid of any copper.

[Chris Perkins]

And what's on the reverse? A large shield and garter I suspect.

You'll find that's a brass fake shilling that was once silver plated. Fake 1816-1820 shillings are far more common than fake sovereigns because not many people would have been fooled by an underweight sovereign. And the legend is wrong for a sovereign too, I should have spotted that sooner.

[lona]

I thank you for your help. I think it must be a shilling also as the reverse is nothing like pictures of gold sovereigns I have researched.

Could it still be worth something?

[Chris Perkins]

Yes, it's a fake shilling that has lost it's silver plate. It would have looked much like the one on this page:

http://www.predecimal.com/forged/georgeiii.htm

(see also the other coins, one of which is brassy)

Had it been in better shape it would have been collectable, but I'm afraid it's quite sorry looking, and of very low value.

[lona]

Thanks just the same and you have saved me making a fool of myself on ebay as I wouldn't want to deceive anybody.

[Chris Perkins]

That's very honest of you, but it just goes to show what no doubt does happen to people on ebay when they buy from someone that didn't do proper research in the first place! Knowledge is very important with these things.

[lona]

I would never want to sell something that I didn't think was authentic. I might put this coin on but tell the truth on my findings. Somebody might still want to buy it.

I have two other coins which are supposed to be guinnea and half guinea. Now I'm wondering if these are forgeries as well.

[Sylvester]

I would never want to sell something that I didn't think was authentic. I might put this coin on but tell the truth on my findings. Somebody might still want to buy it.

I have two other coins which are supposed to be guinnea and half guinea. Now I'm wondering if these are forgeries as well.

Yes they're forgeries, well actually they're not but allow me to explain;

Guineas were last struck in 1813 before being replaced by the sovereign in 1817.

For some reason the Victorians had an obsession with the 'Spade' type guineas (spade because of the shape of the shield, like a pack of cards), thus when it came to having gambling chips they soon put the design to good use and they struck tons and tons of brass imitation guineas (very crude in design, often the wrong size, of dates that were never struck, or dates that are wrong for the design).

Which i believe is what you have there, gambling tokens, or imitation curiosities. Kinda like if you go to one of those gift shops in a city such as York, where you can buy replicas of medieval coinage. The Victorians probably sold them in 'memory of the good old days' which is the very inscription that quite a few surviving examples show on their reverse.

[lona]

I'm not having much luck am I.?

Please tell me this is not a forgery. I think it is a 1799 halfpenny.

[Chris Perkins]

Yes, that's a real one. A 1799 Halfpenny indeed. Grade is 'fair' (or even poor) and it will be worth less than £1 like that, unless you can find someone to pay over the top for it.

[lona]

Thanks Chris, I'm still not doing very well

How about this one?

[lona]

or this one?

[Chris Perkins]

Not of much value. The wear is quite extensive on the George III, and the green bits are a definite no no on the George IV.

[lona]

Oh well it's well worth knowing I've got a load of rubbish.

There's lots more where those came from, I have a box full of different ones.

[Chris Perkins]

Usually, when people have a few coins of low value, they are 99.9% all low value I'm afraid! Feel free to keep posting details on what you have (the pictures are hosted elsewhere, so that's great!)