coin watch

It was the person I suspected. That narrows it down to two or three. B****r, I had a choice (still have) of the Briot Crown or F7 for the T in C slot. No prizes for guessing the easier of the two. Rob I'm Just being nosey (but please tell ) which Briot crown would that be? S2760 assuming one appears out of the woodwork. Blimey, I only know of the 3....the Brooker, the BM and the nice looking Ryan coin. Do you know of others?

It was the person I suspected. That narrows it down to two or three. B****r, I had a choice (still have) of the Briot Crown or F7 for the T in C slot. No prizes for guessing the easier of the two. Rob I'm Just being nosey (but please tell ) which Briot crown would that be?

Thanks for the information, superb stuff, really appreciated! When you say re-engraved dies, are we talking re-worked, as in repaired/updated with puncheons, or did they literally hand-work current dies for betterment? Also, forgive my ignorance, but when it is said there are x numbers known of any coin, where does that information come from, where would I locate such records myself? Thanks again, Stuart Yes the use of old dies re-engraved which in this case with the F7 shilling a probable re-touched F3 coin die. But then not uncommon in practice as all over marks are re-engraved dies too. The number of any particular coin known can only be said for the ones that have been brought to light through illustrated previous collections or known coins in current collections, like this coin (F7) I know of the Brooker 2, Carlyon-Britton 2 British Museum 2 and another 2 I know of in a current collection, unless of course others come to light!

Do you know who bought it? I was too late. I've have been asking around but no I don't know. I thought it a good price at first then after realising it was one of the Carlyon-Britton coins..well

I'm not sure you do. I think there are over 1000 individual dies identified to date, and that's just for shillings. T in C was a huge issue. In fact, everything from Crown onwards with the exception of sceptre was quite prolific. 382 pages. Volume one of .. two? detailing the Tower mint coins. Then there are two more volumes on provincial issues ... and I have a sneaking suspicion that shillings could be just as complex, if not more. So not a work for the faint hearted to attempt. Or even read! Do you think we should stick with the blue cover, Richard, it's quite regal, don't you think? Recommended to all......some interesting coins in there!!

There are so many Charles Tower shilling dies evident that a complete or even near so study would be impossible the conclude, but for me this is where the interest holds. It is true some type dies where made up in sections which can be seen when comparing coins of the same portrait type, this being (I find) most evident in the likes of the 'common' E2 bust make-up, these subtle differences are also seen in most of the portraits while also in the meantime coins of the following class: C1,C3,F4 for example so far are (from what I have seen) having been struck from one die for each type which only adds to its considered rarity. But interestingly there are also one or two coins which are considered rare but have a number of differing dies, for example the Sharp F7 with the triangle in circle mm, I find this coin the most facinating of the Tower series, a real mess of a coin and out of the 8 known none are in great shape (one just sold with a well known dealer at a VERY good price!) Osborne briefly wrote about it, Sharp said it was probably struck at a time of mint transition when most skilled workers left the Tower mint, this shows in the re-engraving of old dies but what I find crazy is in just 8 examples I know of 3 different obverse dies were used, to me this must have been a trial piece of some kind and at a very interesting time during the civil war, a real history coin which deserves more study. This coin is also apparently related to the 'Briot' crown with the same mark (3 known) and the 3a2 Half crown same mark (2 known) both of which are companion coins to this shilling and probably made again as a trial/test piece. This is one small reason why I love these coins, I am constantly finding quirky new twists and turns, if only to keep myself happy

Osborne's article is in the 1984 BNJ p.164-209, just before Besly's York mint article. A very useful volume. The mentioned Sharp 1977 and Osborne 1984 papers are the best in depth for study with the Sharp having numerous updated BNJ additions along the way. It is hoped that these papers might be revised at some stage, but alas it might take someone with the a great will to do so now. I know of 34 Tower mint Charles portraits, with one of these (Sharp G3) being recognised since. The D type for example has six 'official' portraits but again one or two of these also have (now accepted) know subtle differences, so not conclusive. The Tower Half crown in my opinion is still a sleeping giant, purely for some types are more scarce/rare than generally accepted.

What a great piece of art, and a smashing looking pair of 8's too Really if this was a 'Banksy' it would be worth a fortune!!..........Just thought, if this was done during the time of circulation, which is most probable, would it have been illegal to have done so?

Precious metals maybe the answer, but really I'm at a point now where I have no idea, and this coming from someone who has always been a saver and planner for the future. I always thought of my future as something secure if I worked hard enough and made the right moves (mostly financial) to make a difference to my life, this (I feel) I did ok with but could my children do the same? I fear not, because it seems to me now that hard work and saving has so many pitfalls. Personally I look at 'money' as something that has always been gradually devalued but in recent times the whole way of life of this 'western promise' has started to fall far too quickly, so fast infact that I do wonder if the whole system has been 'engineered' to fail for some sinister reason. I Look through history and see some very worrying common patterns!! I'm sick to the back teeth reading and listeing to misleading comments that lead our way of life. Bottom line for me now is 'sod' money and just be be happy, money has given me more headaces than anything else in my life I can think of (except the wife at times!) Without moderate control it spirals out of control and leads to only one thing. Just my opinions.

I have to agree this catalogue is all over the place, but then it's probably more geared up for on-line bidding. I can't imagine there being many people left on day 3 especially with many lots looking like ebay fodder!!....maybe 1 or 2 potential good buys with other lots really quite laughable!!....I quite like the Lockdales though, always worth a look.

I hope you have asked for special delivery ......I reckon we should expect to see this again under "coin acquisition of the week" soon. You show off....

I know a good few of the Bedale hoard coins sold through Tennants auctions last September, I have seen a few of the better examples selling through a dealer with many others finding there way on ebay. As with most hoard coins the ones from this sale have a 'fresh' look to them but this coin does seem to be quite shiny looking suggesting it has received a fair bit of cleaning. Having said that it does have a very good clear portrait as this type is notoriously difficult to find without some sort of flatness, so I would say it's a clear VF (for it's type) The best reference to date for Charles I Tower shillings is the Michael Sharp papers, although now well over 30 years old and in desperate need of an update this work is well widely used, it can be found used in Spink too next to each Tower shilling type. This coin is a Sharp G1/2 and one of the more common types found.

Well a Guinea was 21 Shillings, 1 Shilling was 12 Pennies, 1 Penny was 4 Farthings....so 21 x 12 x 4 = 1008 Farthings I guess!!!! Oh then 1008 x 4 = 4032 1/4 farthings......Sorry missed the 1/4!!!!!

Well a Guinea was 21 Shillings, 1 Shilling was 12 Pennies, 1 Penny was 4 Farthings....so 21 x 12 x 4 = 1008 Farthings I guess!!!!

Yes just the sort of reason I was thinking of. I find it very difficult to talk about hobby face to face, not so much because of the "nerd" label (though I probably am one!) but because of the uncomfortable feeling I would get from thinking who else was listening. So yeah coin collecting is a lonely hobby, but for security reasons it's better that way. One the other hand I do have a life away from coins so am I anti-social............yeah probably!!!!!!!

I'm so anti-social I don't even talk to myself

The VF market has to encompass the bulk of collector interest because there simply isn't enough EF or better material to go around once you go back to the 18th or 19th century or before. The down side of this collector base is that they also have less disposable income to spend and are the first to batten down the hatches when the economic tea leaves are unfavourable. That is why it is always the middle markets that suffer first and most. I can definitely see this happening with the VF's as this is where my concerning thoughts have been of late, and as you say the middle markets suffer first and most, but I have decided to stay positive in my thoughts and say this 'mid' market although maybe taking the bulk hit first should be the steady 'ship' in the long term. When the top end starts to sink then what ship are the 'new' collectors going to jump to!? I feel quite happy with this positive way of thinking! I won't be reading any more posts....just in case

Some interesting thoughts here!! I'm thinking back in positive mode at the moment with the thought that the 'VF' market is the stronghold of the collector interest, and so if this collector base stays strong in the 'mid' market then the long term outlook indeed should be good. Which is more than can be said for the crazy top-end at the moment...Look out for the cliff edge big spenders!!!

How about...all the VF's could likely follow the trend, so you're getting richer by the day! And, if they don't, you can buy lots more coins! Best of both worlds :-) The variability is a pain in arse though I have to admit! Starting a particular type of collection, only to find you're priced out of the market before you complete it to your satisfaction, is a bit of a drag! Feeling a little better with that thought!! Thanks

Hhmmm, this is not really helping my negative collecting vibes! someone please make me feel better with collecting VF's!! I'm off for a walk in the garden to smell the roses!!!!

Great cars!! I fully appreciate a decent vintage! though I hate driving today! Anyway just getting back to coins on this nice sunny Sunday afternoon, which incidentlly I was feeling very happy with until I read some of these posts! Again I can't help but feel negative agian about these latest price trends in the auctions. OK the prices have increased beyond my aim for the better top end coins that interest me, so as a collector I am now left with the moderate 'run of the mill' coins!?! So what now?....More of a concern is the lack of interest in the coins that fit into the next grade down, I don't mean the Ebay fodder, but the moderate coin even with a 'ticket' which in some cases not reaching the estimate as shown in this Spink auction and others. Oh well maybe I should aim for these lower grades for a possible bargain.....or are they? Help very low again with collecting!!!!

I think it's pretty evident that most (if not all) coin prices have increased considerably over the past decade, and has been discussed on these forums (and other places) a number of times it does seem to be a growing trend at the moment if in the most part at the top end of the market. So with the current prices in mind as a relating factor it is the 'trend' I would like to ask about, what I mean is "how we stand/compare today as a collector" to say the ealy 1970's? When the current market situation is talked about lately I often also read about the increases that took place in the early 70's, as I was more interested in my train set and action man in the 70's I can't judge it, so I would like to know (hopefully from those who remember) does this current trend really relate so closely to that era? Or after the rise and crash between the 70's 80's & 90's are we only now experiencing a correction?

Can't be a bad thing to get away from this "Gentlemans club" way of dealing!! I think if this sort of thing was still going on in todays market then the prospect of another bust would be much stronger!

Some really interesting views here. It does seem the more open market today has made the whole collecting experience a much more enjoyable one. With some of these points in mind I would like to think even with the recent market rises in coins that the eventual outcome this time would differ considerably to the previous boom and bust as mentioned. One would hope!

Interesting thoughts, thanks. I like the comparisons given with Seaby's 1972, food for thought there! With regard to the "unique circumstances" of the 70's, this is the thought I have been having when trying to relate the market changes we are now seeing, like the 70's I think we are now in another "unique" but very different situation with all that's going on and because of this I thought the talk in comparing now with 40 (odd) years back....well I don't think we can, so I suppose just use that time as a 'maybe' of what the next decade could hold. I think with the thoughts given with the Seaby example I think is a good guide to how general collector coins can withstand the long term.