cathrine

I returned the coin to Atlas today for a refund. As I've mentioned before, I really appreciated receiving the many diverse comments and opinions that I received from the forum's members. It wasn't an easy decision to make, but I finally decided to take advantage of Atlas's generous return privilege.

I've also noticed some scratches and/or hairlines in the photos, and I wonder if they're are on the slab external surface or on the coin's easily damaged proof surface. Since I can't remove the coin from the slab without violating the seller's return privilege conditions, my alternative possibilities are: (1) Polish the slab surface and take new photos, or (2) Attempt to narrow the photos' depth-of-field to focus on the slab surface and also on the coin's field surface. Probably any polishing of the slab's surface would be considered as a violation of the slab's integrity and would be grounds for violation of the return privilege. So, tomorrow I'll attempt to play with the depth-of-field and see what (if anything) can be learned from such an exercise. By the way, all of the member's comments are welcome. I have no position that I need to justify; I merely solicited the member's comments (catty or not), and I'm grateful for the responses.

I've recently acquired a proof 1860 Victorian penny. It's a Freeman 4 specimen that's graded PF 66 Bronzed by PCGS. I've tried to find a provenance for this coin, but I've been unsuccessful. Can any of the "Penny Experts" help me in this regard?

When it arrives, I'll photograph the coin and post the results in a topic that will be entitled: "1860 Bronzed Proof Penny - Photos". Fortunately, I have a digital SLR camera with a tripod and macro lens that should be capable of taking some decent images. I don't have a scale capable of weighing a slabbed coin with any meaningful degree of accuracy. On their website, Atlas Numismatics states the coin's weight as 11.16 grams. Perhaps the coin was weighed by Atlas prior to being sent to PCGS?

I'd like to express my thanks to everyone that participated in this discussion. The Spink auction coin is undoubtedly the coin being offered by Atlas Numismatics, and the Spink vs. PCGS photographs are quite different. Naturally, no matter how accurate or inaccurate they are, photos will never replace a hands-on examination. I do have a 14 day return privilage from Atlas, so I'm glad that the final decision will depend on my evaluation of the actual coin rather than the photographs.

I bought the coin from Atlas Numismatics. As suggested, I'll contact the seller and inquire about its prior owner(s).

I bought the 1871 penny for a hammer price of £1,700. I've been in the market for a high grade specimen for quite some time, but this is the first time that I've seen a combination of condition attributes so pleasing to my sense of esthetic values. I'm glad to hear that Vicky agreed with my assessment of this coin's virtues.

The shipping details seem like a minor consideration for a coin of this value. If the seller will not ship at his cost from the US to the UK, he's not serious about marketing his offering.If you're serious about acquiring this specimen, you will negotiate some mutually satisfactory terms.

Here's a nice looking 1860/59 specimen that's just been listed on eBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1860-59-GREAT-BRITAIN-COPPER-PENNY-NGC-AU-58-BN-/152235059863?hash=item2371eaaa97:g:QgQAAOSwsB9WBIKd#shpCntId If you're interested, note that the seller has a 30 day return for a full refund.

Hello lordshill I'm a halfpenny collector. I'm primarily interested in Victorian copper and young head bronze halfpennies. You can see many of my coins on the NCG website. Access NCG by going to www.ngccoin.com, select the "NGC Registry" tab, then select the "WORLD SETS" tab, scroll down the page and select "Great Britain - Pre-Decimal", scroll down the page and select "Halfpenny, 1838-1901 (Victoria), Circulation Issue", finally select the set name "Drina's Halfpennies". I hope you'll enjoy trying to collect halfpennies as much as I do! Regards, Bob

Hi Declan, I'd like one of your vouchers if they're still available. Thanks, Cathrine

I just bought another specimen for my halfpenny collection. I have a nice F-334, but, until now, I haven't seen a high grade F-335. Has anyone seen a better specimen of F-335?

I looked at the detailed photos of your avatar coin on the CGS website today; I've never seen it before. Your specimen has much better coloration, while mine has slighty better details. If your coin had been for sale, I would have made a strong bid for it!

I recently received an 1841 circulation penny with colon that I acquired during the last Spink auction. I think that this is the best looking 1841 circulation penny (with or without colon) that I've seen.

I ordered a copy of this book today at what appears to be a bargain price ($26.40). The particulars are: Bookseller: Better World Books Ltd AbeBooks Purchase Order No.: 120891457 Purchase Method: Visa Estimated Delivery Date: November 6, 2015 Approximate Shipping Speed: 11 - 21 business days Title: A guide to the varieties and rarity of English regal copper coins, Charles II-Victoria, 1671-1860 Author: Bramah, Ernest Quantity: 1 Book Description: Ships from the UK. Former Library book. Shows some signs of wear, and may have some markings on the inside. Book Price:US$ 21.88 Shipping Price:US$ 4.52 To find a seller, I entered the author and title into the search dialog box on the website bookfinder.com. If you want this book, give this method a try. Perhaps you'll be as lucky as I was. (Assuming that my order is successful!)

I'd say that your attributions are correct.

Although I was unable to upload the Excel files referenced in my discussion, I was able to upload text versions of those files, which are attached. TPG Comparison - Victoria Young Head Halfpennies - Data.txt TPG Comparison - Victoria Young Head Halfpennies - Statistics.txt TPG Comparison - Victoria Young Head Halfpennies - Percentiles.txt

I've concluded the task, and I have the results. However, when I try to attach the Excel files referred below, I can't do so. If you wants to see those files, please send me your email address. The grading data was collected from the NGC and PCGS websites on January 21, while the CGS grading data was taken on September 29 . The CGS data applies to 624 coins (167 copper & 457 bronze), the NGC data applies to 1,007 coins (401 copper & 606 bronze), and the PCGS data applies to 483 coins (190 copper & 293 bronze). The grading data is presented in the attached Excel spreadsheet ("TPG Comparison - Victoria Young Head Halfpennies - Data"). It should be noted that for comparison purposes I have replaced the numerical grades by a set of grading levels (1-8 for CGS and 1-6 for NGC & PCGS). Such a mechanism enables us to calculate and compare statistical measures between data sets that use a different range of numerical grades. Some statistical parameters for the various grading data distributions have been calculated using the EasyFit statistical package; the results are displayed on another attached Excel spreadsheet ("TPG Comparison - Victoria Young Head Halfpennies - Statistics"). It may be helpful to give some definitions for the statistical parameters that were calculated: 1. Mean is the average value of a data point (in grading levels). 2. Variance is a measure of how far a data point is from the mean (in grading levels). The higher the variance, the more spread out the distribution of the data is. 3. Skewness quantifies how symmetrical the distribution is. • A symmetrical distribution has a skewness of zero. • An asymmetrical distribution with a long tail to the right (higher values) has a positive skew. • An asymmetrical distribution with a long tail to the left (lower values) has a negative skew. • The skewness is unitless. • Any threshold or rule of thumb is arbitrary, but here is one: If the skewness is greater than 1.0 (or less than -1.0), the skewness is substantial and the distribution is far from symmetrical. The mean values (in grading level) for the different grading services are: CGS - 3.479 (copper), 3.799 (bronze), & 3.713 (copper + bronze) NGC - 3.568 (copper), 3.861 (bronze), & 3.745 (copper + bronze) PCGS - 3.616 (copper), 3.881 (bronze), & 3.776 (copper + bronze) All of those values lie between the third and fourth grading level, which is 78-80 for CGS and 63-64 for NGC and PCGS. The remarkable closeness of these results would lead me to conclude that CGS 78 = NGC or PCGS 63 and CGS 80 = NGC or PCGS 64 for copper and young head bronze Victorian halfpennies. More conclusive evidence to support those equivalences can be found in a third attached Excel spreadsheet ("TPG Comparison - Victoria Young Head Halfpennies - Percentiles"). What is a percentile? A percentile (or a centile) is a measure used in statistics indicating the value below which a given percentage of observations in a group of observations fall. For example, the 20th percentile is the value (or score) below which 20 percent of the observations may be found. The tabulated values were again calculated by using the EasyFit statistical package. The first table shows the grading levels corresponding to each of the percentiles, while the second table shows the same information, except that now the grading level is given by the grading service's numerical grades. Notice that the 50th percentile is CGS80 for all data sets and NGC64 or PCGS64 for all data sets. This is a perfect match for the percentiles regardless of which data set is selected. Now let's take a look at what CGS publishes on it's website about the major TPG service equivalences: CGS90 = MS66 CGS88 = MS65 -66 CGS85 = MS65 CGS82 = MS 64 -65 CGS80 = MS 64 CGS78 = MS 63 -64 CGS75 = MS 62- 63 CGS70 = MS60-61 The percintile data shows that CGS85 = MS65, CGS82 = MS64-65, CGS80 = MS64, CGS78 = MS63, CGS75 = MS62-63, and CGS70 = MS62. This is very strong statistical evidence that the equivalences published by CGS is correct for copper and young head Victorian bronze halfpennies. Quod Erat Demonstrandum!

I'm not a statistician, but I know this discussion needs to address the shape of the statistical probability vs. third party grade distribution curve for the major TPG systems. In a prior submittal to this forum, I addressed NGC vs. PCGS grades for Victorian copper and bronze. Since CGS publishes population data, I'll "try" to use that info to make some comparisons with the US graders' results. Of course, one of the difficulties is that both PCGS & NGC use a color index (BN, RB, & RD) as well as a numerical grade, and that color index does have an effect on the grade. In the CGS system, the color also has an effect, but that effect is reflected in the grade. This difference complicates the comparison problem. However, if we combine the each of the number of PCGS & NGC coins for all colors at every grade and compare those distributions with the CGS distribution, the results should give us a valid comparison. I'll report on such a study after I've done the task. (the results will only apply to Victorian copper & bronze circulation coins because I'm not currently interested in the other possibilities; I leave such tasks to other interested parties).

Of course, it would be preferable to buy this coin raw. However, a coin like this doesn't present itself for purchase except on rare occasions. So, one does what one needs to do if the object is to acquire a high quality specimen for one's collection without waiting beyond one's lifetime.

This coin was listed on the US eBay site last week as: "1874 Great Britain 1/2 P 5 Berries - Large Date" (Item Id: 161763652870). I was fortunate enough to discover it, looked at the better quality photos available on the NGC website for the certification number, identified it as the best F-317 that I've seen, made an offer to the seller, and accepted a reasonable counter-offer. NGC lists only one coin for this designaton in their current census, so this is probably the Ausralian coin that has been seen before.

I've recently acquired a high grade specimen of the 1874 halfpenny. It's Freeman 317 (Obverse 9 + Reverse K). NGC has graded this coin as MS 63 RB.

I just acquired an 1843 halfpenny: It's graded MS 64+ RB by PCGS.

I've repeated the preceding process for the NGC and PCGS graded Victorian young head bronze halfpennies. Again, the uncirculated census for both grading services ranges from MS61 to MS66. The data was also collected from both service's websites on January 21. The NGC data set consists of 606 coins (173 brown, 371 red & brown, and 62 red), while the PCGS set contains 293 coins (59 brown, 179 red & brown, and 55 red). Color Results The results show that PCGS is again more likely than NGC to consider a submitted coin as red & brown or red rather than brown and is also more likely to consider a coin to be red rather than red & brown. Looking at the percentages: NGC: 28.6 % Brown - 71.4 % red & brown or red (7 coins in 10 are red & brown or red) PCGS: 20.1 % Brown - 79.9 % red & brown or red (8 coins in 10 are red & brown or red) NGC: 71.4 % red & brown or red - 10.2 % red (1 coin in 7 is red) PCGS: 79.9 % red & brown or red - 18.8 % red (1 coin in 4 is red) 　 　 Grading Results Looking at the distribution of coin grades for all coins in the two sets: For NGC: 61 62 63 64 65 66 9 60 137 220 160 20 1.5% 9.9% 22.6% 36.3% 26.4% 3.3% For PCGS: 61 62 63 64 65 66 0 20 63 149 54 7 0.0% 6.8% 21.5% 50.9% 18.4% 2.4% Both distributions have remarkably close arithmetic mean values: NGC: 63.86 & PCGS: 63.88. Again, the distribution of grades for NGC is more spread out from the mean value than the PCGS distribution. The most likely grade for either grading service is a 64. Conclusions According to the results of this study for Victorian young head bronze halfpennies, the two grading services are likely to give identical grading results; however, PCGS is more likely than NGC to give a more favorable color assessment. This is the same conclusion previously reached for the Victorian copper halfpennies.