Viccy Penny

Hello all, this seems like a great forum. I have been doing metal detecting as a hobby, and the other day I found a 10 (new) pence coin dated 1968, and realized it was same size and shape as a pre-decimal two shilling coin or florin. As I'm sure many of you know, decimalization involved the pound staying the same but divided into 100 new pence, rather than 20 shillings as it was in 'old money'. So it follows that 1 shilling = 5 new pence and 2 shillings = 10 new pence, and the new 5 pence and 10 pence coins where exactly the same size & shape as there pre-decimal equivalents. So these 4 coins could co-exist in circulation until the early 1990s when the 5ps and 10ps where made smaller, and shillings and florins where finally demonetized. So I was curious to ask on here, to those a bit older than I am, so therefore can remember! - how common was it to find shillings and florins in circulation after 1971 and decimalization? It is a strange numismatic quirk that these pre-decimal coins where still 'money' in a post-decimal world, so I was curious to ask of your experiences. Thanks Milo

Regarding the issue of shillings & florins still being around circa 1990, seeming 'complacent & inefficient', dosen't seem like the author gives any source, but personally I sort of agree with him. He says that the pre-decimal remnants (and also the redundant use of 'NEW' on older coins), " often puzzled foreigners and children alike " , which kind of makes sense if you think about it, to see an old 10p (or florin) next to a much smaller and lighter 20p must have seemed strange.

I respect your point - having 5ps and 10ps the same size as shillings and florins was a very good way to ease into decimalisation - and I am sure the author of the article (Philip McLoughin) would agree too. In the article he does say that he is suggesting an ideal plan, with the benefit of hindsight.

Ok I have had another look at the Coin News article and I if understand it correctly, the author's opinion is that: * The weight-to-value concept should have been abandoned for decimal coins. * The 5p and 10p should have been issued early, but smaller in size than their pre-decimal equivalents, whilst sharing the same till space. * Abandoning the weight-to-value concept would have allowed a 20p coin to be introduced from the outset. (would have been massive if 2x weight of florin). * The retention of the pre-decimal coins long after their system's demise gave the impression of a complacent and inefficient Britain.

In the Coin Yearbook 2019 there is quite a good article about the decimalisation, a critique of the process which obviously is easier with benefit of hindsight. Don't have it to hand right now but I believe the article is of the opinion that having shillings & florins still around in 1990s was just a bit silly, and that the weight-to-value concept of coins should have been scrapped in 1971, allowing smaller & cheaper 5ps & 10ps from the off and therefore no use for 1s and 2s. Also would have meant the decimal halfpence could not have been so tiddly.

Recently found out that the sixpence survived until 1980. Apparently it was useful for the London Underground & parking meters because it was the standard fare (old sixpence being 2 1/2 new pence. But with decimal 1/2ps, 1ps and 2ps, I find it a little hard to believe it was that useful a coin, though I do think it is nice it survived a bit longer because of it's folklore status (which itself probably helped it survive).

Thanks for your replies, I appreciate that it is a difficult thing to quantify the proportion. That's sort of how I remember it as well, they were just "funny" 5ps and 10ps. Sort of strange really. Maybe because it felt weirdly regressive to call them shillings and florins, like when you have a dream about someone you know who's dead, being alive - It's not very nice.

So, to try to be more specific, what would you guys say was the average % of shillings & florins in change, lets say in around 1980, roughly halfway between decimalization and the withdrawal ?

"crop up in change" is what I meant of course, But anyway thanks copper123, I suppose it was not suprising that would happen.

Thanks for the interesting replies, it's good to know these venerable coins were still common in change. I was born in 1984 so only have a vague memory of shillings & florins and learning that they were the same as the 5ps and 10ps but then of course they were made smaller and no more shillings. Did 19th century shillings & florins ever crop in change in this time?