Jump to content
British Coin Forum - Predecimal.com

50 Years of RotographicCoinpublications.com A Rotographic Imprint. Price guide reference book publishers since 1959. Lots of books on coins, banknotes and medals. Please visit and like Coin Publications on Facebook for offers and updates.

Coin Publications on Facebook

   Rotographic    

The current range of books. Click the image above to see them on Amazon (printed and Kindle format). More info on coinpublications.com

predecimal.comPredecimal.com. One of the most popular websites on British pre-decimal coins, with hundreds of coins for sale, advice for beginners and interesting information.

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)
On 3/21/2021 at 2:25 PM, 1949threepence said:

 

 

Meant to say I kept an eye on this pairing, out of interest. They didn't sell.

Not entirely surprised though. As Richard says, the estimates were a bit pricey. 

They are really hard to find Mike especially with lustre and i have looked and bought a lot over about seven years.This was one of the best ones i bought thats UNC and very lightly MT and are so hard to find its one i kept when i sold a lot of other types.

1934-penny-cgs78-medium.jpg

Edited by PWA 1967
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/28/2021 at 10:52 AM, 1949threepence said:

The second question concerns the 1860/59. Over 32,000 of these were minted and I've now read in two sources that they were never issued for circulation. But if that was the case, then what happened to them? Where were they kept and how come they are in the public domain at all?  Moreover, I've seen a few - one was posted on here a while back - which had quite obviously been in circulation. From the state of it, you'd have been forgiven for thinking it was for longer than the 9 or 10 years possible maximum before demonetisation.    

The obverse of the 1860/59 coins are always seen with the same features highlighted in RED on the attachment, doubled ‘ghosted’ ribbon, and scuffs under this ribbon and QV’s chin. Apart from the date features these things confirm all these pieces were struck from a single altered 1859 die (i.e. the narrow 59 type, which is fairly rare variety in itself on an 1859).

I believe that an average figure for the number of coins which could be struck from a new die was around 30,000, but if a die was already partially used then it would probably produce less than that figure.

I’m just wondering whether the rarity of 1860/59’s could be partially explained by the practice of using dies from earlier years, but not altering dates. For example, I understand that the mint figures for 1848 are only around 160,000, whereas for 1849 they are stated as 268,800. Clearly, however, 1849’s are much rarer than 1848’s, so this suggests that most of the 1849 number of 268,800 actually bear the date of 1848; the mint not bothering to alter 1848 dated dies when the calendar moved to 1849.  

1860 over 59 Obverse Highlights.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, alfnail said:

The obverse of the 1860/59 coins are always seen with the same features highlighted in RED on the attachment, doubled ‘ghosted’ ribbon, and scuffs under this ribbon and QV’s chin. Apart from the date features these things confirm all these pieces were struck from a single altered 1859 die (i.e. the narrow 59 type, which is fairly rare variety in itself on an 1859).

I believe that an average figure for the number of coins which could be struck from a new die was around 30,000, but if a die was already partially used then it would probably produce less than that figure.

I’m just wondering whether the rarity of 1860/59’s could be partially explained by the practice of using dies from earlier years, but not altering dates. For example, I understand that the mint figures for 1848 are only around 160,000, whereas for 1849 they are stated as 268,800. Clearly, however, 1849’s are much rarer than 1848’s, so this suggests that most of the 1849 number of 268,800 actually bear the date of 1848; the mint not bothering to alter 1848 dated dies when the calendar moved to 1849.  

1860 over 59 Obverse Highlights.jpg

 

Some of the 1860/59's have the 6 broken, at the bottom, and some do not.

Edited by RLC35

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, that's true, but it's the same die, just deteriorates with use i. e. the 6 breaks 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love this date nearly as much as the 1849 when truly mint state. What I waited for was an example that had the breast to left on Britannia struck up.

I too wonder how many were struck and survive; in the era of internet they come up rather more frequently than in previous times...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, VickySilver said:

I love this date nearly as much as the 1849 when truly mint state. What I waited for was an example that had the breast to left on Britannia struck up.

I too wonder how many were struck and survive; in the era of internet they come up rather more frequently than in previous times...

Yes, they're obviously very expensive. But in truth they're not desperately rare. You wouldn't have to struggle to find one, or wait very long if you couldn't. 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/28/2021 at 10:52 AM, 1949threepence said:

Couple of questions which have been intriguing me. I'm not entirely sure anyone can answer them with any degree of true certainty, but I thought I would throw them out there for the sake of interest if nothing else.

The first question concerns the 1827 penny. Clearly they are a scarce item, but why are so many porous/corroded? That seems to be a commonality in many (although not all).

I read one report that the porosity was incurred on a sea voyage to Australia, where the pennies had apparently been produced for. But this was an unofficial account, although it sounds plausible enough. If seawater had breached the hold where the coins were stored, the corrosion is easily explained. Is it true though? 

I've also noted that it appears virtually impossible to obtain one in very high grade.

I can't confirm if it is true, but I'm lead to believe there are only two mint state examples available. There's one in an MS65(?) slab with questionable colour that was on Cooke's site for years and another in a private collection which definitely doesn't have any problems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

Yes, they're obviously very expensive. But in truth they're not desperately rare. You wouldn't have to struggle to find one, or wait very long if you couldn't. 

Despite my lack of enthusiasm for pennies, I still regret being underbidder on the Adams coin. Such is life - must put money where mouth is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, secret santa said:

Colin Adams coin

1827.jpg.156d3904436305ef99f1c2fc6998cc47.jpg

£1550 plus commission !

Very nice. What would the cost be today I wonder?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Uh, I will confess to getting the Adams 1860/59....And 1550 was the price on that as well.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, VickySilver said:

Uh, I will confess to getting the Adams 1860/59....And 1550 was the price on that as well.

Bargain!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Iannich48 said:

Very nice. What would the cost be today I wonder?

Considerably more !!!

 

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, secret santa said:

Colin Adams coin

1827.jpg.156d3904436305ef99f1c2fc6998cc47.jpg

£1550 plus commission !

CP1827.thumb.jpg.47f88d3c0c70cfd068ae24ba63b4faf4.jpg

One I had for a while, now part of a Gentleman's Choice collection

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

Considerably more !!!

 

CP1860_59.thumb.jpg.d4906a7a3fb3fd3a4fcf77e15ccf81c0.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Chingford said:

 

CP1849.thumb.jpg.33c34a3165175726fa8f728a7f5ba863.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Rob said:

I can't confirm if it is true, but I'm lead to believe there are only two mint state examples available. There's one in an MS65(?) slab with questionable colour that was on Cooke's site for years and another in a private collection which definitely doesn't have any problems.

Adams coin is currently residing in a NGC MS61 slab after being carefully conserved, was in a CGS65 slab before being broken out and sold raw at LCA, Didn't sell at Goldberg's Auction $8,000 - $10,000

There are currently two NGC MS65 1827 Pennies, one BN the other RB.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Chingford said:

One I had for a while, now part of a Gentleman's Choice collection

Explain?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said:

Explain?

I sold it to another collector

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, secret santa said:

Colin Adams coin

1827.jpg.156d3904436305ef99f1c2fc6998cc47.jpg

£1550 plus commission !

Very nice indeed but, as I bought this one for £175 delivered, you can count me happy enough.

 

 

 

IMG_20200113_110620.jpg.d7423afddc8b21084c39a379f19d6c55.jpg

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/31/2021 at 10:32 PM, Chingford said:

I sold it to another collector

Is that what Gentleman's Choice means?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Sourced with relish.....

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Peckris 2 said:

Is that what Gentleman's Choice means?

I suspect that ‘Gentleman’s Choice’ , capitalised, refers to a named collection created by some individual who otherwise wishes to remain anonymous, a bit like the ‘North Yorkshire Moors’ collection recently sold at auction. I quite like these suggestions that might provide the inspiration when naming my own collection.

https://raregoldcoins.com/blog/2016/11/18/the-top-ten-list-of-bad-coin-collection-names

Jerry

 

  • Like 2
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×