Oppinions on collecting coins for bullion value

[Simon M 0]

Hi all,

My first post here and Im delighted I have found this forum.

I used to collect coins as a child and built up a nice collection until girls and beer came along and foolishly sold everything to fund my teenage years as you do!

Ive now got back into collecting and am particularly interested in shillings and crowns and shall be slowly building up my collection over the coming years.

One question I have regarding silver coins is "whats the best silver coins to buy for investment?" As silver prices seem to bee on a steady rise and lots of speculation that silver prices may increase a lot further I was wondering if its worth investing in poorer grade coins for thier bullion value only.

Ive been looking at all kinds of coins from newly minted silver eagles, britannias, maples etc but I find these new coins to be rather uninteresting and hold none of the historic magic of say victorian crowns and other historic coins.

What at your thoughts? Is it worth buying poorer grade coins for the silver content and gamble that silver will continue to increase in price or is it folly to buy poor grade coins and be left with junk if the silver price falls?

What in your oppinions would be the best grade of pre 1920 silver crowns to collect that would hold their value over time. Do I seek out coins in EF and pay the premium prices or go for F/VF?

Apologies for my Naivety.

Simon.

[Rob 3,106]

Keep collecting and investment separate as the two are incompatible. Collect the things you appreciate and wish to build on, buy silver as an investment as and how you see fit. You might want to assemble a collection of a dozen crowns and that might take a couple years to find. You might buy a dozen crowns for their bullion content, but have to sell them the same day to take advantage of a spike in the silver price, or alternatively you find the price paid is never reached again and you are sitting on a permanent potential loss. Collecting is not a day to day buying and selling activity, or at least not if done with a set of predetermined parameters. Pay any amount for bullion as an investment and it is as you say, a gamble. Your call.

[Generic Lad 25]

Keep collecting and investment separate as the two are incompatible. Collect the things you appreciate and wish to build on, buy silver as an investment as and how you see fit. You might want to assemble a collection of a dozen crowns and that might take a couple years to find. You might buy a dozen crowns for their bullion content, but have to sell them the same day to take advantage of a spike in the silver price, or alternatively you find the price paid is never reached again and you are sitting on a permanent potential loss. Collecting is not a day to day buying and selling activity, or at least not if done with a set of predetermined parameters. Pay any amount for bullion as an investment and it is as you say, a gamble. Your call.

Exactly. I keep my bullion and collector coins separate. I've got a decent sized (well, not really decent sized, but decent enough as a student anyways ) collection of bullion which is strictly for investment. Sadly I missed out on the big spike in silver prices last year as I was still up at college (of course it had to be during final exams...) and so there was really no way for me to get back to my bank to sell them.

Though I have to say I've compromised with lower-grade Standing Liberty quarters, I'd say I have a collection of them but I really paid not much more than I would for an ugly Washington silver quarter. You might have a similar coin or group of coins that are readily available in lower-grade condition and have little to no premiums over silver content. Sadly over here in the US there really aren't any coin shops (or eBay sellers) that do that and because the coin says 18XX or 17XX it goes for quite a bit more than it should considering its nearly all the way worn down... (and insured shipping makes it not profitable to buy directly from the UK)

Personally, I'd go for low premium coins, Victorian Crowns in all but the lowest grade conditions have a large premium over silver content if you just want it for bullion. I've got a nice Excel spreadsheet where I calculate the intrinsic value of coins with a given price of silver, I'd attach it but it doesn't want to let me...

Britannias have an absurd premium if you are looking at them from an investment standpoint. Right now silver is at ~$33.50 per troy ounce, based on recent eBay auctions any Britannia is going to set you back $48-50 for a common one. With $70-80 common for some of the older dates. Eagles have a reasonable premium that in the US you can usually get back when you sell it (dealers sell them for about $1-2 over spot and buy it for $1-2 over what they'd buy for a silver bar), Maple leafs also have a low premium. A fun coin that sells for bullion is the Maria Theresa Thaler, though the date says 1780 they are nearly all re-strikes that continue to this day at the Austrian mint, but it has everything that an interesting coin should have, raised edge lettering like the old head crowns, large size and an interesting history. And, since it is a modern coin you can get it in BU/AU without having to pay much of a premium at all over silver content.

But really, its up to you. None of us know what the market is going to be like, for all we know today we will see silver trading at $5-10 an ounce again or it might shoot up to $80 per ounce. But do keep collector coins and bullion coins separate, though, there's nothing wrong with having a few bullion coins of nicer designs.

[Peter 615]

Rob is right

You could say the horse has bolted for investors.I'm shifting my lower grade silver and only buy the best I can afford now (unless it is a debatable variety I'm after when VF will do)

I have never looked at coins as being a huge investment but everything I've bought over the years is holding it's own.

I bought sov's and half sov's only about 5 years ago for (£80 & £40 each)..some of those have gone

Word on the street says Maundy sets are undervalued.Start to read up and become educated in a series.One bit of advice is don't touch the modern chuff that is aimed at the uneducated.

[Generic Lad 25]

Rob is right

You could say the horse has bolted for investors.I'm shifting my lower grade silver and only buy the best I can afford now (unless it is a debatable variety I'm after when VF will do)

I have never looked at coins as being a huge investment but everything I've bought over the years is holding it's own.

I bought sov's and half sov's only about 5 years ago for (£80 & £40 each)..some of those have gone

Word on the street says Maundy sets are undervalued.Start to read up and become educated in a series.One bit of advice is don't touch the modern chuff that is aimed at the uneducated.

On Maundy sets, do you know of a good resource to look up the mintages for each individual piece for the older issues such as Victoria, Edward VII, and George V? I can find a few places that show what the mintage for each set is worth, but a lot of (American) dealers only sell them piece by piece and it would be nice to know if for a certain year the groat was lower minted than the penny or vice versa.

[TomGoodheart 380]

Welcome Simon! As you say, silver is at a (near) all time high now. It never seems sensible to me to buy when things are peaking in price. Yes, silver could carry on rising in price, but it's a gamble. And as Generic Lad says, things like Britannias are already at a premium.

My personal view is that the money I could use to buy bullion could be spent on building up a nice collection of coins. That to me is a fun thing to do because it involves learning about the coins and tracking down the gaps in my collection. Plus there's the history and art of coins to consider.

But it's a personal choice in the end. What you might want to do is to check the weight of silver coins (all the specs for the various denominations can be found online) and work out what the current bullion value of a crown or shilling or whatever is. Then if you spot a silver florin in a junk shop priced at less than bullion you have the option to buy it. Of course you'll need to keep an eye on what people are paying for silver (0.925 for coins).

Generally low grade coins are only worth buying if a) rare, less than bullion and you plan on selling soon. But having said that I had a soft spot for a very worn Eddy VII half crown. I sold it to Chris (forum owner) in the end. But for modern coins (post 1816) I'd aim for at least VF or better as most dates really aren't that hard to find.

[Peckris 579]

Hi all,

My first post here and Im delighted I have found this forum.

I used to collect coins as a child and built up a nice collection until girls and beer came along and foolishly sold everything to fund my teenage years as you do!

Ive now got back into collecting and am particularly interested in shillings and crowns and shall be slowly building up my collection over the coming years.

One question I have regarding silver coins is "whats the best silver coins to buy for investment?" As silver prices seem to bee on a steady rise and lots of speculation that silver prices may increase a lot further I was wondering if its worth investing in poorer grade coins for thier bullion value only.

Ive been looking at all kinds of coins from newly minted silver eagles, britannias, maples etc but I find these new coins to be rather uninteresting and hold none of the historic magic of say victorian crowns and other historic coins.

What at your thoughts? Is it worth buying poorer grade coins for the silver content and gamble that silver will continue to increase in price or is it folly to buy poor grade coins and be left with junk if the silver price falls?

What in your oppinions would be the best grade of pre 1920 silver crowns to collect that would hold their value over time. Do I seek out coins in EF and pay the premium prices or go for F/VF?

Apologies for my Naivety.

Simon.

That's possibly the most dangerous sentence I've ever read on these forums. If you want to buy with bullion futures in mind there are two things to say : 1) get yourself a good crystal ball and remember what happened in 1980-81 ... 2) stay away from coins - there are enough 'x times face' traders about already.

If you want to invest in coins, then two further pieces of advice : 1) get the highest grades you can afford and 2) avoid the commonest items (doesn't mean you have to go for rarities, which is the opposite extreme). As far as crowns are concerned, steer clear of 1887 and 1889, and go for EF or better of other dates, except the rarer types.

[Coinery 1,011]

All this talk of silver scrap has got me begging to ask...where is the best place to sell? Does anyone have any sources, places they normally sell?

I see ukscrapgold are offering .59p/g, has anybody ever sold to them? Do you get exactly what they say, without any hidden charges or issues?

[Peter 615]

All this talk of silver scrap has got me begging to ask...where is the best place to sell? Does anyone have any sources, places they normally sell?

I see ukscrapgold are offering .59p/g, has anybody ever sold to them? Do you get exactly what they say, without any hidden charges or issues?

For some of the really horrid pre 1920 I take it to a man on the local market who gives me cash there and then @55p/g.No postal worries and cash.He will pro rata 50% silver and USA 80%.

If the coins are reasonable say NF+...eBAY.

[Simon M 0]

Dear all,

Wow!

Some invaluable advice and I thank you very much indeed.

I shall endeavour to seek out the best grades I can afford.

Simon.

[Boomstick 0]

I can't really see the point of investing in coins for bullion value, unless you get offered some at a price too good to refuse. Coins grades form a triangle of quality - thick base at the washer end and thin point with Unc's. These are finite and there can only be less of them as time and atrophy progresses. I'll always buy my coins as close to the thin end of the wedge as possible - that way there will hopefully be no shortage of buyers when I come to sell my collection.

[Peter 615]

I can't really see the point of investing in coins for bullion value, unless you get offered some at a price too good to refuse. Coins grades form a triangle of quality - thick base at the washer end and thin point with Unc's. These are finite and there can only be less of them as time and atrophy progresses. I'll always buy my coins as close to the thin end of the wedge as possible - that way there will hopefully be no shortage of buyers when I come to sell my collection.

Don't forget all the rubbish that is being turned into ingots will have an effect on the future availability of coins at the thicker end of the wedge.

[Generic Lad 25]

All this talk of silver scrap has got me begging to ask...where is the best place to sell? Does anyone have any sources, places they normally sell?

I see ukscrapgold are offering .59p/g, has anybody ever sold to them? Do you get exactly what they say, without any hidden charges or issues?

For some of the really horrid pre 1920 I take it to a man on the local market who gives me cash there and then @55p/g.No postal worries and cash.He will pro rata 50% silver and USA 80%.

If the coins are reasonable say NF+...eBAY.

Keep in mind that US silver coins are 90% (not 80%) before 1965 (1964 being the last year for circulation 90% silver coins) but Kennedy half dollars dated 1965-1970 are 40% silver. US "War Nickels" (1942-1945 with a large P, D or S mintmark over the Monticello on the reverse) are 35% silver. If you guys have any scrap US/Canadian coins http://coinflation.com/ has a good chart on the intrinsic values.

Also, if you are willing to sell coins abroad (via eBay or a similar means) coins that in British coin collecting is only worth scrap, American collectors will pay several times the intrinsic value, even for coins that (in British numismatics) have a high mintage. Even common date silver dollars will also sell for a modest premium over intrinsic value to a US collector with most Carson City silver dollars (CC mintmark on the reverse) selling for well in the three figures even when well worn.

Personally, I have a coin dealer/precious metal dealer/jeweler that buys and sells fairly close to spot and has been very fair dealing with me with coins and scrap jewellery, last I checked they paid ~22-23x face for US scrap grade coins (intrinsic value at about 25x face) and sold at 26x or 27x face depending on the amount of inventory they had.

But really, if you have any silver US coins even if they are worn down to nothing, check eBay, its silly what some American coin collectors will pay for worn specimens.

For example, look at this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1872-SEATED-LIBERTY-HALF-DIME-RARE-OLD-COIN-/170777254093?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item27c31e18cd

Not a low mintage (712,600), not in good condition and a coin the size of a threepence, yet its still selling for $17+. When it has an intrinsic value of ~$1 and honestly isn't that old.

[InforaPenny 21]

In retrospect, it now seems that it would have been a great idea to collect sovereigns by date and mint mark starting around the year 2000, when many of these could be obtained near BV. I guess everything seems clear in a rear view mirror…

Best Regards,

InforaPenny

[Peter 615]

All this talk of silver scrap has got me begging to ask...where is the best place to sell? Does anyone have any sources, places they normally sell?

I see ukscrapgold are offering .59p/g, has anybody ever sold to them? Do you get exactly what they say, without any hidden charges or issues?

For some of the really horrid pre 1920 I take it to a man on the local market who gives me cash there and then @55p/g.No postal worries and cash.He will pro rata 50% silver and USA 80%.

If the coins are reasonable say NF+...eBAY.

Keep in mind that US silver coins are 90% (not 80%) before 1965 (1964 being the last year for circulation 90% silver coins) but Kennedy half dollars dated 1965-1970 are 40% silver. US "War Nickels" (1942-1945 with a large P, D or S mintmark over the Monticello on the reverse) are 35% silver. If you guys have any scrap US/Canadian coins http://coinflation.com/ has a good chart on the intrinsic values.

Also, if you are willing to sell coins abroad (via eBay or a similar means) coins that in British coin collecting is only worth scrap, American collectors will pay several times the intrinsic value, even for coins that (in British numismatics) have a high mintage. Even common date silver dollars will also sell for a modest premium over intrinsic value to a US collector with most Carson City silver dollars (CC mintmark on the reverse) selling for well in the three figures even when well worn.

Personally, I have a coin dealer/precious metal dealer/jeweler that buys and sells fairly close to spot and has been very fair dealing with me with coins and scrap jewellery, last I checked they paid ~22-23x face for US scrap grade coins (intrinsic value at about 25x face) and sold at 26x or 27x face depending on the amount of inventory they had.

But really, if you have any silver US coins even if they are worn down to nothing, check eBay, its silly what some American coin collectors will pay for worn specimens.

For example, look at this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1872-SEATED-LIBERTY-HALF-DIME-RARE-OLD-COIN-/170777254093?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item27c31e18cd

Not a low mintage (712,600), not in good condition and a coin the size of a threepence, yet its still selling for $17+. When it has an intrinsic value of ~$1 and honestly isn't that old.

Thanks for that.I won't be too rash.I'm reducing all my coin collections and only keeping the best.I do have an oldish Redbook so some may now go on eBAY.

[Oxford_Collector 0]

Thanks for that.I won't be too rash.I'm reducing all my coin collections and only keeping the best.I do have an oldish Redbook so some may now go on eBAY.

As well as British Silver, I also collect pre-1965 US silver (and some Nickels), though try to aim for fewer, but better condition coins. If you have any nice Walking Liberty halves, Standing Liberty quarters, Mercury Dimes, Buffalo or Jefferson War Nickels, then I might be interested, though! :-)

I also collect pre-1965 US proof sets, which can be obtained sometimes for not far off the spot value of silver, at least for the later sets.

[Peter 615]

Thanks for that.I won't be too rash.I'm reducing all my coin collections and only keeping the best.I do have an oldish Redbook so some may now go on eBAY.

As well as British Silver, I also collect pre-1965 US silver (and some Nickels), though try to aim for fewer, but better condition coins. If you have any nice Walking Liberty halves, Standing Liberty quarters, Mercury Dimes, Buffalo or Jefferson War Nickels, then I might be interested, though! :-)

I also collect pre-1965 US proof sets, which can be obtained sometimes for not far off the spot value of silver, at least for the later sets.

I've got all of those but not in great nrs.

I wouldn't say nice (between Good and GVF) I also have a nr of Barber 1/4's,liberty head nickels...and washington 1/4's.

I went through a phase of buying a lot of US coins after picking up a box fulls from local antique centre in Suffolk (Mildenhall and Lakenheath nearby).I also started putting a cent collection together in high grade & also a load of Indian heads and large cents.

I also got several examples of all denominations from the 19C.Looking at my Redbook some are worth a fair wedge

[Oxford_Collector 0]

Thanks for that.I won't be too rash.I'm reducing all my coin collections and only keeping the best.I do have an oldish Redbook so some may now go on eBAY.

As well as British Silver, I also collect pre-1965 US silver (and some Nickels), though try to aim for fewer, but better condition coins. If you have any nice Walking Liberty halves, Standing Liberty quarters, Mercury Dimes, Buffalo or Jefferson War Nickels, then I might be interested, though! :-)

I also collect pre-1965 US proof sets, which can be obtained sometimes for not far off the spot value of silver, at least for the later sets.

I've got all of those but not in great nrs.

I wouldn't say nice (between Good and GVF) I also have a nr of Barber 1/4's,liberty head nickels...and washington 1/4's.

For my US coins I'm trying to stick to UNC / MS-62 or better coins...