Why is Rishi Sunak held responsible for his wife's tax affairs?

[1949threepence 3,368]

39 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said:

Sorry, but if we are going to debate on this level, then I feel I must stop.

But before I leave it, I'll just say that in Corbyn's case - in the irtually impossible scenario that his wife converted from socialism to become a Tory - then Corbyn couldn't be held to account. But for the reasons I won't repeat again, it's not the same in Sunak's case. If you can't see that, then as I say we are going round in circles and I don't have the energy to keep repeating myself. Sorry.

OK, no problem. We must agree to disagree.

Thanks for the debate. 

 

[azda 979]

On 4/10/2022 at 9:29 AM, 1949threepence said:

OK, so just thinking about the Rishi Sunak affair, doesn't this bring into focus to what extent a politician should be held accountable for the actions and opinions of their other halves? Do we expect them to be in perfect lockstep, or do we accept they are two separate individuals with their own ideas? I mean supposing Rishi's wife, Akshata Murthy, had refused to change her tax status and gone in front of the cameras to say what she was doing was legal, adding that it was to her financial advantage to keep things as they were, and she wasn't taking orders from anyone, including him? Should Rishi have then immediately resigned?

Supposing Jeremy Corbyn's wife, Laura Alvarez, had publicly declared herself a Tory and gone on to say what a huge fan she was of David Cameron or Teresa May? Or if Philip May had criticised his wife for the police cuts back in 2014. Or back in the 80's Denis Thatcher had declared himself left wing and expressed his profound admiration for Karl Marx and Michael Foot.

Possible examples are legion. What I don't get in the current instance is why Rishi's own judgement is in question for his wife's personal choices. With some of the sanctimonious crap that's emerging from the media, you might be forgiven for thinking that we'd gone back a long way in time, and she was thought of as a mere chattel, ready to do his bidding at the drop of a hat.  

Sunak being the Chancellor had a conflict of interest. Lets go back a little though, the Tory party has been funded by Russians, in 2007 a Russian ex banker Lubov Golubeva makes her first donation to the Tory party, she is the partner of Vladimir Chernukin, Putins former deputy finance minister, they own multiple companies through shell. 2008 Blojo is elected mayor of London, in 2009 former KGB spy Alexander Lebedev buys the London Evening standard and appoints his son Evgeny as senior Executive director.

In 2010 Blojo and Evgeny get friendly, in 2012 The Evening standard publicly back Blojo for the Mayor of London campaign (just a coincidence, right?) The year Blojo wins that election, he stays for free at lebedevs Italian castle (something he'd do every October for 5 years afterwards) In 2016 MI6 expresses concern about Lebedev, Blojo was made aware of the concerns, but remains close friends with him.

Lebedev in a tweet speculates that Alexander Litvinenko may have been murdered by MI6. In 2015 Lebedev pushes the UK to ally itself with Putin in Syria, Blojo then writes a Telegraph column saying "Lets deal with the devil, we should work with Putin in Syria" Chemical weapons were deployed during that time" In 2016 Lebedev attends a private dinner with Blojo at his family home in Islington along with Michael Gove, its the night that they both decide to back Brexit. The same year Blojo says that the EU provoked the Russian invasion of Crimea. 2018, Skripal and his daughter are poisoned on the streets of Salisbury.

Lebedev has now a peerage.......Yeah, British politics and the Tory party are not in it for themselves, they've sold Britain to the Russians and sold contracts to their mates and make sure their family are taken care of, and screw the British public. All of that info is easily obtainable should you need to fact check it......

[azda 979]

Let’s also not forget that Blojo  didn’t let the security and intelligence report on Russia to be published, coincidence? I think not.

[Sword 1,501]

On 4/10/2022 at 10:56 PM, 1949threepence said:

I'd still love to know what would have happened if she'd publicly refused to give up the non dom tax status. Would he have been expected to order her to do so? - trap there just waiting for the unwary individual who made such an implication.  

There are faults and corruption wherever you look in politics, not just on one side. Blair took us into an illegal war which killed tens of thousands, and ends up being Sir Tony.

He doesn't hold the green card any more, and whilst it was incompatible with his position that he did, the fact he gave it up before these "revelations" renders the point somewhat moot. I can't somehow see it firing public anger.   

Obviously, one partner has no right to "order" the other to do anything. IMHO, the question is not about her judgement but with his. He was married in 2009 and it is questionable whether he should have entered  politics in  2014 if she wanted to keep her non dom status. People only have to look after themselves prior to becoming politicians. It can be viewed as an error of judgement (solely on his part) for him to accept appointments as Chief Secretary to the Treasury and as Chancellor if his wife wanted to remain non dom. Similarly, holding a green card even when Chancellor would also be viewed by many as another error of judgement. 

 

[1949threepence 3,368]

58 minutes ago, Sword said:

Obviously, one partner has no right to "order" the other to do anything. IMHO, the question is not about her judgement but with his. He was married in 2009 and it is questionable whether he should have entered  politics in  2014 if she wanted to keep her non dom status. People only have to look after themselves prior to becoming politicians. It can be viewed as an error of judgement (solely on his part) for him to accept appointments as Chief Secretary to the Treasury and as Chancellor if his wife wanted to remain non dom. Similarly, holding a green card even when Chancellor would also be viewed by many as another error of judgement. 

 

As I understand the situation though, Sunak didn't withhold any information from parliament (unless you know different?). Consequently there has to be a reasonable limit on his moral/political/legal obligations. Or should he have kept reminding them to make sure it hadn't been forgotten?

I'm not sure we any longer live in an age where logic and reason rule the day.

We need intelligent, quality politicians and we're not going to get them if they are regularly subject to witch hunts of the most brutal kind. If you take Sunak as an example, he's already a very wealthy man. Many in his position would now think "sod it, I don't need this crap, I'm out". 

I do agree some reasonable degree of propriety is needed. No time for blatant, deliberate dishonesty. But if you are trying to carry out offices of state - often under difficult circumstances anyway - it doesn't help if you have a group of individuals on your back constantly and deliberately looking for the slightest thing to trip you up, and then exposing it to the world in an "outraged morals, shock horror" sort of way. It's like having a colleague at work who has made it their personal business to look at your work at every available opportunity in the hope they'll find something you've omitted/overlooked or done wrong, so they can then send an e mail to the entire office pointing out your errors and why you should get the sack for it - while neglecting to do their own job at the same time. 

By the way, this isn't a party political issue, as everybody, from whatever side, is human and makes unintentional mistakes. Account has to be made for that. If we punish the slightest thing with resignation expectations, there'll be nobody left, and nobody wanting to take their place. 

 

        

[Sword 1,501]

2 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

By the way, this isn't a party political issue, as everybody, from whatever side, is human and makes unintentional mistakes. Account has to be made for that. If we punish the slightest thing with resignation expectations, there'll be nobody left, and nobody wanting to take their place.      

I agree that his wife's tax status or holding a green card when Chancellor are not resignation issues. I doubt there is any need to apologise to anyone for those things. Nevertheless, they were political errors in the sense that they have cost him something with regard to reputation. 

Partygate with the Prime Minister is a totally different issue. For him, it wasn't just an isolated incidence. We all have our own views on what he ought to do now, and I don't want to be dragged into a debate on this one. I will just finish with a light hearted joke: 

"Grandpa, how did you cope during the COVID lockdowns?" asked one of his grandchildren. 

"I was fine, fine, fine" replied Boris. "Your grandma was fine too. In fact, Downing Street was fine, fine, fine, fine, fine, fine, fine, fine fine fine..."

Edited April 13, 2022 by Sword

[1949threepence 3,368]

1 hour ago, Sword said:

I agree that his wife's tax status or holding a green card when Chancellor are not resignation issues. I doubt there is any need to apologise to anyone for those things. Nevertheless, they were political errors in the sense that they have cost him something with regard to reputation. 

Partygate with the Prime Minister is a totally different issue. For him, it wasn't just an isolated incidence. We all have our own views on what he ought to do now, and I don't want to be dragged into a debate on this one. I will just finish with a light hearted joke: 

"Grandpa, how did you cope during the COVID lockdowns?" asked one of his grandchildren. 

"I was fine, fine, fine" replied Boris. "Your grandma was fine too. In fact, Downing Street was fine, fine, fine, fine, fine, fine, fine, fine fine fine..."

Hmm, partygate. Again so many unanswered question, which for me is the elephant in the room. Chief question amongst which, is why the pictures and videos emerged suddenly about 18 months after the event? What the hell was all that about? Who took the pics and why did they hold onto them? Never EVER addressed by the media. Yet in any reasonable enquiry surely a very pertinent question. I assume not asked as we don't know who took them.  Happy enough to cause trouble for others, but too cowardly to show their faces.

Also, you can say what you like about Matt Hancock, but again, what in Christ's name was a CCTV video camera concealed inside a smoke alarm doing in his private office. Who put it there, and where was the live feed going? Who was monitoring it 24/7 to catch that little bit of snogging action amongst all the weeks months and years it was there? Again, who leaked it? This is highly relevant as it has deep security implications. Next time it could be a COBRA meeting with the feed going who knows where. Could be Keir Starmer's cabinet if he gets elected........ But of course it was just the tediously predictable "shock horror, dreadful vile Tory scum" circle jerk it usually is, with no attention paid to the deeper implications - notice it all went very quiet on that front. So we still have no idea what that camera was doing there.      

[Sword 1,501]

1 hour ago, 1949threepence said:

Hmm, partygate. Again so many unanswered question, which for me is the elephant in the room. Chief question amongst which, is why the pictures and videos emerged suddenly about 18 months after the event? What the hell was all that about? Who took the pics and why did they hold onto them? Never EVER addressed by the media. Yet in any reasonable enquiry surely a very pertinent question. I assume not asked as we don't know who took them.  Happy enough to cause trouble for others, but too cowardly to show their faces.

Also, you can say what you like about Matt Hancock, but again, what in Christ's name was a CCTV video camera concealed inside a smoke alarm doing in his private office. Who put it there, and where was the live feed going? Who was monitoring it 24/7 to catch that little bit of snogging action amongst all the weeks months and years it was there? Again, who leaked it? This is highly relevant as it has deep security implications. Next time it could be a COBRA meeting with the feed going who knows where. Could be Keir Starmer's cabinet if he gets elected........ But of course it was just the tediously predictable "shock horror, dreadful vile Tory scum" circle jerk it usually is, with no attention paid to the deeper implications - notice it all went very quiet on that front. So we still have no idea what that camera was doing there.      

The tampering of the CCTV to catch Matt Hancock was undoubtedly illegal and a security risk. It was the government's job to find out who was responsible. According to skynews, two people were suspected but there was not enough evidence to charge. https://news.sky.com/story/matt-hancock-insufficient-evidence-to-prosecute-two-suspected-of-leaking-cctv-kiss-footage-12589378

With regard to the other photos, they could all be legit as far as we know. Some might even be taken with full knowledge of the people concerned. One reported photo supposedly show the PM holding a can of beer towards the camera during his birthday party. He is said to be standing next to Rishi Sunak in the image taken by an official Downing Street photographer. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-birthday-party-beer-photo-b2008215.html

I hope we won't be too shocked when the photos come out after the investigation.

Enough political diversion for me for now, and I will go to the other threads

 

 

 

Edited April 13, 2022 by Sword

[azda 979]

So... it now comes to light that Rishi Sunak's wife was part owner of Lava Mayfair Club Ltd (a private membership gym), which collapsed last year owing almost £44million to creditors, including £374,000 to HMRC!
Another of Mrs Sunak's ventures... Mrs Wordsmith (an education business) went into administration last year owing £16.3million – after receiving a £1.3million loan from the Government's "Future Fund"!
OH IT GETS WORSE... Digme Fitness (which she owns 100% of) received up to £635,000 of furlough money... before it then closed its eight studios in London and Oxford... still owing HMRC £415,000!

So .... Mr Sunak introduces the furlough scheme ...  and the woman he's sleeping with benefits by up to £635,000!
Mr Sunak oversees the rules regarding Non-Dom status ... and the woman he's sleeping with benefits by over £20 million!
Mr Sunak is in charge of ensuring that the UK maximises its tax revenue... yet the woman he's sleeping with has been active in, or has owned, companies going bust owing a staggering £789,000 to HMRC!

Found this elsewhere 

[1949threepence 3,368]

2 hours ago, azda said:

So... it now comes to light that Rishi Sunak's wife was part owner of Lava Mayfair Club Ltd (a private membership gym), which collapsed last year owing almost £44million to creditors, including £374,000 to HMRC!
Another of Mrs Sunak's ventures... Mrs Wordsmith (an education business) went into administration last year owing £16.3million – after receiving a £1.3million loan from the Government's "Future Fund"!
OH IT GETS WORSE... Digme Fitness (which she owns 100% of) received up to £635,000 of furlough money... before it then closed its eight studios in London and Oxford... still owing HMRC £415,000!

So .... Mr Sunak introduces the furlough scheme ...  and the woman he's sleeping with benefits by up to £635,000!
Mr Sunak oversees the rules regarding Non-Dom status ... and the woman he's sleeping with benefits by over £20 million!
Mr Sunak is in charge of ensuring that the UK maximises its tax revenue... yet the woman he's sleeping with has been active in, or has owned, companies going bust owing a staggering £789,000 to HMRC!

Found this elsewhere 

Extra marital affair? Didn't know about that. Do you have a link?

[azda 979]

26 minutes ago, 1949threepence said:

Extra marital affair? Didn't know about that. Do you have a link?

His wife

[jelida 1,358]

Furlough was a necessary scheme to support businesses through the pandemic,  not a guarantee that they could all survive. Many did that would otherwise have failed, many did not. The remarkable thing is that we are coming out of this pandemic with near full employment. Now if he had ONLY provided furlough to businesses owned by his mates and family,  there might be a reasonable political point here.

Jerry

[jelida 1,358]

Oh, and I’m poxed up to my eyeballs with COVID at the moment,  thanks to my wife - oh delete that, I’d better blame the grandchildren. 
So the above post may be infectious, handle with care. This isn’t nice, despite the vaccine.

Jerry

[1949threepence 3,368]

13 hours ago, azda said:

His wife

So just a phrase to somehow personally demean them both,  after you'd already said "wife" in your first line. Thought so, but just wanted to check first.

 

[1949threepence 3,368]

5 hours ago, jelida said:

Furlough was a necessary scheme to support businesses through the pandemic,  not a guarantee that they could all survive. Many did that would otherwise have failed, many did not. The remarkable thing is that we are coming out of this pandemic with near full employment. Now if he had ONLY provided furlough to businesses owned by his mates and family,  there might be a reasonable political point here.

Jerry

In the situation we were in at the time, mistakes were inevitable. If Labour had been in power there would have been other errors and cause for criticism - may not have been the same ones, but they would have cropped up for sure. The government's opponents will only highlight faults - that's their job. But if you look at everything in the round, they actually made a reasonable fist of getting us through what was always totally uncharted territory.  

5 hours ago, jelida said:

Oh, and I’m poxed up to my eyeballs with COVID at the moment,  thanks to my wife - oh delete that, I’d better blame the grandchildren. 
So the above post may be infectious, handle with care. This isn’t nice, despite the vaccine.

Jerry

You have my sympathy Jerry. I had it in January. The worst symptom was the horribly blocked nose, and throbbing head every time I stood up. Awful sensation. That plus a feeling of tiredness for a few days at the start, but not being able to sleep properly because of discomfort.  

Edited April 18, 2022 by 1949threepence

[azda 979]

1 hour ago, 1949threepence said:

So just a phrase to somehow personally demean them both,  after you'd already said "wife" in your first line. Thought so, but just wanted to check first.

 

I mentioned at the end of the post that it came from elsewhere, it also says Rishi Sunak' wife at the beginning, there was no mention of a third party integrated into the marriage.

Also, you mention that Labour would have made mistakes, but that's theory only as they weren't in power during the lockdown. How do we account for the billions to friends of MPs paying for PPE at hyper inflated prices at the expense of the taxpayer? Also Boris' lies about the 25 parties he held while everyone else had to stay away from their loved ones during their dying days?

[copper123 1,526]

Only 25 ?

[blakeyboy 1,765]

11 hours ago, jelida said:

Oh, and I’m poxed up to my eyeballs with COVID at the moment,  thanks to my wife - oh delete that, I’d better blame the grandchildren. 
So the above post may be infectious, handle with care. This isn’t nice, despite the vaccine.

Jerry

Eurgh....came back from Brussels in early november.

Tested negative...yeah right.... holy crap....I told Erica that I was going to sleep again ( 4 days by then without going downstairs)

and if I felt even _slightly_ worse when I woke up she was going to be calling someone....

REALLY not funny...never had chest problems like that before.

I'm slim and fit for my age, and it hit me real hard.

Lost a mate last month- big time anti vaxer - overweight idiot and sure enough, yet another covid hospital bed and death....

 

Keep going Jerry!!

[copper123 1,526]

Covid will be a no problem in about 3 years or so it is becomeing milder and less deadly quite quickly , not that you could never be harmed with it now but it's becomeing less and less bother some .

There could easy be another virus  hideing around the corner quite soon  maybe in my lifetime , I hope lessons are learned from it .

 

[jelida 1,358]

6 minutes ago, copper123 said:

Covid will be a no problem in about 3 years or so it is becomeing milder and less deadly quite quickly , not that you could never be harmed with it now but it's becomeing less and less bother some .

There could easy be another virus  hideing around the corner quite soon  maybe in my lifetime , I hope lessons are learned from it .

 

I agree, if it follows the typical course for highly mutating new viruses, though there is always the possibility of a more deadly variant along the way.  What has really hit me with this illness over the last two days is the near total inability to breathe through my nose, as Mike experienced. The aches and squits haven’t helped!🤢 Like Blake, I am reasonably slim and fit for my age, bar the asthma/COPD,  I dread to think how I’d have felt if not fully vaccinated.

I see Nicola has had her words from the police, and apologised. Accepting that apology and moving on would be a reasonable public response, and I hope it happens despite me having no fondness for her policies (and despite having a good entitlement to a Scottish passport should one eventually become available…… if the whole UK gets to vote and kicks them out).

Jerry

[1949threepence 3,368]

7 hours ago, azda said:

I mentioned at the end of the post that it came from elsewhere, it also says Rishi Sunak' wife at the beginning, there was no mention of a third party integrated into the marriage.

Also, you mention that Labour would have made mistakes, but that's theory only as they weren't in power during the lockdown. How do we account for the billions to friends of MPs paying for PPE at hyper inflated prices at the expense of the taxpayer? Also Boris' lies about the 25 parties he held while everyone else had to stay away from their loved ones during their dying days?

So why not just say "his wife" throughout? What was the point in "the woman he's sleeping with"? It's blindingly obvious he sleeps with her, so why mention it as though it has some special meaning?

As for the rest, not interested, the world's moved on. There are massively more important things happening.

[1949threepence 3,368]

1 hour ago, jelida said:

I agree, if it follows the typical course for highly mutating new viruses, though there is always the possibility of a more deadly variant along the way.  What has really hit me with this illness over the last two days is the near total inability to breathe through my nose, as Mike experienced. The aches and squits haven’t helped!🤢 Like Blake, I am reasonably slim and fit for my age, bar the asthma/COPD,  I dread to think how I’d have felt if not fully vaccinated.

I see Nicola has had her words from the police, and apologised. Accepting that apology and moving on would be a reasonable public response, and I hope it happens despite me having no fondness for her policies (and despite having a good entitlement to a Scottish passport should one eventually become available…… if the whole UK gets to vote and kicks them out).

Jerry

The other odd thing was the lateral flow test. The second "covid" line doesn't just disappear overnight, it gradually fades over a period of about 7 days. I was testing myself daily to see whether or not I was fit to return for my two days a week in the office, or just continue working from home full time. In the end I went back after 4 weeks, even though I felt a lot better after about 10 days. 

I agree with you about Nicola Sturgeon. She obviously just forgot in the immediacy of the moment, and then remembered. Human error.   

  

[jelida 1,358]

The lateral flow test positivity depends on viral load, which declines gradually. My wife tested negative today, 10 days after first positive. But risk of transmission declines sooner,  and is usually negligible after 5-7 days. I hope to be fit for Pub and BEER come the weekend.

Jerry

[azda 979]

15 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

So why not just say "his wife" throughout? What was the point in "the woman he's sleeping with"? It's blindingly obvious he sleeps with her, so why mention it as though it has some special meaning?

As for the rest, not interested, the world's moved on. There are massively more important things happening.

You'll have to ask the person who wrote the post from where I found it that question, as stated, I didn't write it, I just copied and pasted it.

[1949threepence 3,368]

3 hours ago, azda said:

You'll have to ask the person who wrote the post from where I found it that question, as stated, I didn't write it, I just copied and pasted it.

and I asked you if you had a link, but you never gave one.......tut tut.  

ETA: still never mind, I've done a bit of detective work and found it myself. Turns out it was a facebook post by someone in the Communication Worker's Union, which in itself was "copied" - here IS a link.

Doesn't say where it was copied from.     

I'll tenatively accept there was no anti government bias and that the source is a reliable one (ha ha)

Edited April 19, 2022 by 1949threepence