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I've been on a Youtube trawl, looking at old HIGNFY stuff etc, and I suddenly realised what a hole is left from Charles Kennedy's passing nearly six years ago.

Not my politics, but he was a proper funny sharp-witted bloke with the skills to do politics.

I know, he had his flaws, but that's often the way.

Even Alistair Campbell said he 'spoke fluent human'......

 

Not enough politicians around like him now, sadly, in any party.....

 

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Serious Bowie fan too.

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2 hours ago, blakeyboy said:

I've been on a Youtube trawl, looking at old HIGNFY stuff etc, and I suddenly realised what a hole is left from Charles Kennedy's passing nearly six years ago.

Not my politics, but he was a proper funny sharp-witted bloke with the skills to do politics.

I know, he had his flaws, but that's often the way.

Even Alistair Campbell said he 'spoke fluent human'......

 

Not enough politicians around like him now, sadly, in any party.....

 

We all have flaws. Politicians are no different. Ridiculous expecting them to be saintly figures throughout their lives, as some seem to.

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The trouble I think is we have too many "politicians" and not enough "leaders".

Whatever you think of Boris's political views, at least he has leadership qualities, which are probably what we most needed during the pandemic. Leaders, almost inevitably, have more character, and that often comes with flaws. We should be more tolerant of these as most of the rest of the world are. (I am thinking particularly of the French and the Italians!)

Politicians are trained in the process of politics and diplomacy, but somehow end up just following the process rather than leading their party or country. They end up as "grey" men and women.

The other problem is we still have far too many lawyers in parliament, with the net result that their reaction to any situation is to pass more laws rather than address the problems underlying the issue. (There is another agenda too - make the laws as obtuse and complicated as possible to keep their colleagues in work for ever!)

 

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22 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

We all have flaws. Politicians are no different. Ridiculous expecting them to be saintly figures throughout their lives, as some seem to.

Unfortunately, few have as many as the blond excrescence.

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Boris Johnson who presides over an administration of sleaze, chumocracy and graft faces questions about exactly who paid for the refurbishment of the 11 Downing St flat and his 2019 New Year Caribbean holiday. He also poured a lot of public money into his four year affair with Jennifer Arcuri.

He missed five consecutive emergency COBRA meetings in the build up to the coronavirus crisis, and has proven himself to be an amoral dissembling chancer. What kind of leadership is that?

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9 hours ago, bagerap said:

Boris Johnson who presides over an administration of sleaze, chumocracy and graft faces questions about exactly who paid for the refurbishment of the 11 Downing St flat and his 2019 New Year Caribbean holiday. He also poured a lot of public money into his four year affair with Jennifer Arcuri.

He missed five consecutive emergency COBRA meetings in the build up to the coronavirus crisis, and has proven himself to be an amoral dissembling chancer. What kind of leadership is that?

Sorry, but the issue of the COBR meetings is a complete red herring. In any emergency, unless it needs an immediate response, there is an initial planning and organisation phase. At this point it is unnecessary to directly include the boss in the planning, since he usually lacks the knowledge and expertise to contribute very much in the early stages. The people who are included need to have sufficient seniority to be able to make decisions and to direct the planning, and in the case of the pandemic this would be the Health Secretary, who did attend these meetings. Also, of course, he will have briefed the PM/Cabinet on what was happening, and will have sought any decisions he wasn't able to take for himself. It would have been a complete waste of the PM's time for him to sit through all the detailed material and briefings in those early stages. If anybody wants to understand the depth of detail, go the the Cabinet Office website and search for the SAGE Meeting minutes. You will quickly see exactly what I mean.

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1 hour ago, DaveG38 said:

Sorry, but the issue of the COBR meetings is a complete red herring. In any emergency, unless it needs an immediate response, there is an initial planning and organisation phase. At this point it is unnecessary to directly include the boss in the planning, since he usually lacks the knowledge and expertise to contribute very much in the early stages. The people who are included need to have sufficient seniority to be able to make decisions and to direct the planning, and in the case of the pandemic this would be the Health Secretary, who did attend these meetings. Also, of course, he will have briefed the PM/Cabinet on what was happening, and will have sought any decisions he wasn't able to take for himself. It would have been a complete waste of the PM's time for him to sit through all the detailed material and briefings in those early stages. If anybody wants to understand the depth of detail, go the the Cabinet Office website and search for the SAGE Meeting minutes. You will quickly see exactly what I mean.

That may be technically correct, but it doesn't explain why Boris appointed then became dependent on Dominic Cummings, after Cameron had sacked him for his meddling and incompetence. Nor why he formed a Cabinet comprising such terminal no-hopers as Patel, Raab, Truss, Hancock et al. Nor why he's made such a career of spasm-decisions based on not thinking through the relevant factors, then being forced to change his mind later, all while putting on his 'man of the people' two-face mask carefully designed to win people over to his side based purely on a front of personality rather than having to be judged on his dismal record.

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41 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said:

That may be technically correct, but it doesn't explain why Boris appointed then became dependent on Dominic Cummings, after Cameron had sacked him for his meddling and incompetence. Nor why he formed a Cabinet comprising such terminal no-hopers as Patel, Raab, Truss, Hancock et al. Nor why he's made such a career of spasm-decisions based on not thinking through the relevant factors, then being forced to change his mind later, all while putting on his 'man of the people' two-face mask carefully designed to win people over to his side based purely on a front of personality rather than having to be judged on his dismal record.

My comments were only intended to address the factual matter of attending the COBR meetings, a situation where many people misunderstand the realities of responding to emergencies, and think that the PM should be involved at the outset. Those comments were based on my 30 years in the disaster management business with BT and my interactions with goverment, and have no political motivation whatsoever. The rest of the comments in the opening post made were political opinion, which I happen to disagree with on many levels, but I really don't want to get into a political debate. Mainly, this is because people tend to allow their dislike of a politician or party cloud their judgment about what that person or party is actually doing, to the point where their generalisations can be easily shown to be biased. Unfortunately, this often leads to unjustified acrimony, something I have no desire to engage with. If people want a civilised debate based around facts not personal opinions then I'm fine with  that, but otherwise not. Life's too short, and it won't change anything. However, if people have a reasoned argument about a subject then make it to the relevant politician. If its any good it will be adopted.

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8 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

That may be technically correct, but it doesn't explain why Boris appointed then became dependent on Dominic Cummings, after Cameron had sacked him for his meddling and incompetence. Nor why he formed a Cabinet comprising such terminal no-hopers as Patel, Raab, Truss, Hancock et al. Nor why he's made such a career of spasm-decisions based on not thinking through the relevant factors, then being forced to change his mind later, all while putting on his 'man of the people' two-face mask carefully designed to win people over to his side based purely on a front of personality rather than having to be judged on his dismal record.

I loved the way Matt Hancock slapped down Laura Kuenssberg at the last covid press briefing. By making her only question about Boris, she insulted all those who have lost people to covid. Well deserved.

 

 

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I enjoy the way she attempts a pop at the privileged members of the cabinet etc.

If you do too, have a look at her Wikipedia entry and get your head round who her family are/were.....

 

Aha!!

 

In my sister's house, she is genuinely only ever referred to as "  'Ol bendyface'"....

 

 

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5 minutes ago, blakeyboy said:

I enjoy the way she attempts a pop at the privileged members of the cabinet etc.

If you do too, have a look at her Wikipedia entry and get your head round who her family are/were.....

 

Aha!!

 

In my sister's house, she is genuinely only ever referred to as "  'Ol bendyface'"....

 

 

She always looks as though she's just chewed a wasp's nest. 

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8 hours ago, DaveG38 said:

My comments were only intended to address the factual matter of attending the COBR meetings, a situation where many people misunderstand the realities of responding to emergencies, and think that the PM should be involved at the outset. Those comments were based on my 30 years in the disaster management business with BT and my interactions with goverment, and have no political motivation whatsoever. The rest of the comments in the opening post made were political opinion, which I happen to disagree with on many levels, but I really don't want to get into a political debate. Mainly, this is because people tend to allow their dislike of a politician or party cloud their judgment about what that person or party is actually doing, to the point where their generalisations can be easily shown to be biased. Unfortunately, this often leads to unjustified acrimony, something I have no desire to engage with. If people want a civilised debate based around facts not personal opinions then I'm fine with  that, but otherwise not. Life's too short, and it won't change anything. However, if people have a reasoned argument about a subject then make it to the relevant politician. If its any good it will be adopted.

Correct.

It's only  briefing room 'A',  as it's acronym shows. A briefing room. No more than that.

Anyone party to a decision can hold a briefing if asked. I doesn't require the person at the top to be there at all.

 

Incidentally, Dave, are you available still?

My relationship with BT over the past 30 years requires Disaster Management.

 

What a bunch of useless half-baked inept lying twats.

The lies I have been told by BT over the years would fill a book.

I bet you were glad to get out!

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3 minutes ago, blakeyboy said:

Correct.

It's only  briefing room 'A',  as it's acronym shows. A briefing room. No more than that.

Anyone party to a decision can hold a briefing if asked. I doesn't require the person at the top to be there at all.

 

Incidentally, Dave, are you available still?

My relationship with BT over the past 30 years requires Disaster Management.

 

What a bunch of useless half-baked inept lying twats.

The lies I have been told by BT over the years would fill a book.

I bet you were glad to get out!

Don't hold back, Blake. Just say it how it is.

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, blakeyboy said:

Correct.

It's only  briefing room 'A',  as it's acronym shows. A briefing room. No more than that.

Anyone party to a decision can hold a briefing if asked. I doesn't require the person at the top to be there at all.

 

Incidentally, Dave, are you available still?

My relationship with BT over the past 30 years requires Disaster Management.

 

What a bunch of useless half-baked inept lying twats.

The lies I have been told by BT over the years would fill a book.

I bet you were glad to get out!

I'm sorry you have had problems with BT, though knowing how the company has been changing recently, I'm maybe not surprised. In my time, I saw pretty much all the major disasters in the UK: Deal bombing, Zeebrugge Ferry, Dunblane, Lockerbie, Hurricane 1987, 9/11, 7/7 etc. plus a blur of internal incidents affecting exchanges and cable systems. You'd be surprised how many exchanges caught fire, got flooded, exploded or got struck by vehicles. And how the operators of thrust borers manage to unerringly find a major cable system is amazing. Back in those days though we were pretty well organised, but also well resourced. Nowadays, I'm not so sure.

As to your last point, I was pleased to leave the endless reorganisation behind. I missed the people, and to some extent the work, which was incredibly varied and interesting, but not the politics and the ridiculous decisions that were regularly made. Having said this, there is a limit to how many emergency plans can be written and re-written before it becomes tedious, and how many exercises and training courses that can be run, before there is nothing new to say or do. By the time I got to this point I tended to rely on experience rather than original thinking, but once you have a system in place that works, my view is that you change it at your peril. Review the process and documentation by all means, but don't make wholesale changes. Unfortunately, new brooms rarely understand this, which is frustrating for us old gits. Hey ho, I've been gone a while now and no longer really miss it. 

Edited by DaveG38
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, blakeyboy said:

I enjoy the way she attempts a pop at the privileged members of the cabinet etc.

If you do too, have a look at her Wikipedia entry and get your head round who her family are/were.....

 

Aha!!

 

In my sister's house, she is genuinely only ever referred to as "  'Ol bendyface'"....

 

 

So, not quite this then. An oldie, but always worth another look....

 

Edited by Michael-Roo
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...and you tell that to kids today....and they don't believe you......

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8 hours ago, blakeyboy said:

...and you tell that to kids today....and they don't believe you......

 

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On 5/4/2021 at 11:59 PM, bagerap said:

Boris Johnson who presides over an administration of sleaze, chumocracy and graft faces questions about exactly who paid for the refurbishment of the 11 Downing St flat and his 2019 New Year Caribbean holiday. He also poured a lot of public money into his four year affair with Jennifer Arcuri.

He missed five consecutive emergency COBRA meetings in the build up to the coronavirus crisis, and has proven himself to be an amoral dissembling chancer. What kind of leadership is that?

Hmmm, problem is that nobody cares about who funded Boris's flat as long as it wasn't the taxpayer. I think someone on the radio this morning, hit the nail bang on the head, when they speculated that the conservatives are winning as they now occupy all ground, and are catering for all classes. Whereas Labour seem unable to move beyond the old left good right bad mindset, and still continue to hurl personal insults at "tory scum" - ain't working anymore. 

 

curtains.jpg

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Unfortunately many voting decisions (in fact most decisions in life) are made on the basis of emotion rather than logic.

In the political world, you can spot when emotion has got the better of logic, when people start slinging personal insults rather than discussing the actual facts and policies that are important. The other indicator is when people start quoting "facts" that are uncorroborated, inaccurate or irrelevant. Virtually everyone in the media comes with a political bias, often emotional rather than logical, so they rarely question the mud-slinging or the misinformation. Sells more papers to keep stirring the pot.

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30 minutes ago, Paddy said:

Unfortunately many voting decisions (in fact most decisions in life) are made on the basis of emotion rather than logic.

In the political world, you can spot when emotion has got the better of logic, when people start slinging personal insults rather than discussing the actual facts and policies that are important. The other indicator is when people start quoting "facts" that are uncorroborated, inaccurate or irrelevant. Virtually everyone in the media comes with a political bias, often emotional rather than logical, so they rarely question the mud-slinging or the misinformation. Sells more papers to keep stirring the pot.

Absolutely. Hard fact seems to be taking a backseat to a very emotionally driven agenda these days. 

As an example, yesterday, the dispute over French fishing rights in Jersey. There was much hot air about gunboats and blockades, as well as interviewing aggrieved French fishermen, but zero on the precise terms of the agreement, and whether the Jersey authorities were acting lawfully or not.   

I think Labour lost a lot of votes in the brexit constituencies (wards) because the mass of the working class got fed up with being labelled "thick racists", especially by a tiny left wing liberal elite inside the M25 circle. Not to mention feeling abandoned to interest groups detached from working class concerns. 

Labour may need to stop shouting and start listening. We need an effective, credible opposition, so hopefully they'll buck up their ideas and emerge with some great initiatives of their own, rather than continually sniping at the "Tories". 

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8 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

Hmmm, problem is that nobody cares about who funded Boris's flat as long as it wasn't the taxpayer. I think someone on the radio this morning, hit the nail bang on the head, when they speculated that the conservatives are winning as they now occupy all ground, and are catering for all classes. Whereas Labour seem unable to move beyond the old left good right bad mindset, and still continue to hurl personal insults at "tory scum" - ain't working anymore. 

 

curtains.jpg

......is this the new Laura Ashley collection?

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9 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

I think Labour lost a lot of votes in the brexit constituencies (wards) because the mass of the working class got fed up with being labelled "thick racists", especially by a tiny left wing liberal elite inside the M25 circle. Not to mention feeling abandoned to interest groups detached from working class concerns.

I don't think you can categorise Scotland, all the English university towns, metropolitan areas such as Liverpool, Manchester, Bradford and Leeds, and a big majority in London as "a tiny left wing liberal elite inside the M25 circle"

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11 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

I don't think you can categorise Scotland, all the English university towns, metropolitan areas such as Liverpool, Manchester, Bradford and Leeds, and a big majority in London as "a tiny left wing liberal elite inside the M25 circle"

They're just an extension of the same mindset. In numbers terms, the rest think very differently. Moreover, Scotland is a special case as the SNP prevails there. 

I would, however, take a special look at Wales where Labour have done well. You have to ask yourself why have they done so well there, when most of the rest of the country are fed up to the back teeth with their incessant carping, accusing and name calling. Maybe it's got something to do with the fact they've got an old school guy, Mark Drakeford, Welsh speaker, calmly gets on with the job, massively successful with the vaccine rollout (better than the rest of us), criticises where relevant and necessary and isn't obsessed with wokery.    

Surely you must accept that Labour have been annihilated in England, apart from the pockets you mention. That hasn't happened for no reason.  

Also, for the serving government to out perform the opposition so comprehensively, and win a by election from Labour, in a former Labour stronghold, 17 months into their tenure says a lot about that opposition. 

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