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JacktheLad

New to collecting - my story so far

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Hi everyone,

I'm Jack, nice to meet you all - I've been collecting British pre-decimal coins since lockdown started last March, albeit with quite a large gap between then and now due to moving house, quitting my job (good timing mid-pandemic) and other minor impediments. I'd say I've been properly focussed on collecting coins now since September 2020, so in a word - newbie. 

Even as a kid I remember finding old coins around my grandparents' houses and being fascinated by how old they were (even the ones that weren't particularly old) and equally fascinated by the alien (to me and my generation) system of £/d. While I'd remark at how fascinating old coins are, I never actually got round to making a hobby of collecting them or delving deeper into numismatics. I found a old hot chocolate tin underneath the bed in the spare room of my step-mother's house when I was staying there for Christmas in 2019; in it there were loads of old, mostly British, coins so I decided to sift through them and see if I could find anything really interesting. In amongst the tonnes of decimal 1/2 p coins there would appear various George VI coins, the odd George V coin, a few Victoria pennies rubbed to oblivion over time. All of these were simply magical to me; tangible pieces of history passed from untold numbers of hands into untold numbers of pockets untold numbers of times - amazing! And each coin a work of art in its own right. I decided to cherry-pick the best ones (best one being a 1909 Edward VII Half Crown in not the best condition) and when I got home, I put them into an album I'd bought.

That's when I did what I believe most new numismatists do - I went on eBay and bought garbage in order to bulk out my collection. I later read in some coin groups on Facebook that you ought to focus on something specific and avoid quantity over quality. People suggested date-runs, all coins for a certain monarch or a certain year, etc. My favourite piece is the shilling by a long chalk, so I've decided start trying to get a shilling of each pattern (is that the right word even?) for each monarch going back as far as I can, so: Elizabeth II Scottish + English omitting BRITT. OMN, Elizabeth II English + Scottish with BRITT. OMN, George VI English + Scottish CuNi IND:IMP. omitted, George VI English + Scottish CuNi with IND:IMP., GEORGE VI English + Scottish Ag .500, etc. Currently I've got a few (can provide pics if people would like to see where I'm at so far), notwithstanding some gaps in chronology and some necessary upgrades owing to my earlier less-informed eBay jaunts 🤦‍♂️

Does this sound like a good idea to you more experienced folks? 

Another thing, how best can I spend my time when not actually making purchases? I have a few books (Spink 2021, Collectors Coins GB 2020, Grading British Coins); are there any others that you would recommend? What would you recommend researching?

Sorry this has ended up quite long, I can boil it down to:

1) What do you think of collecting each pattern of shilling for each monarch?

2) What would you recommend doing to learn more?

 

Thank very much in advance. I'm really looking forward to engaging with everyone on this forum, which seems like a really nice place with some very informed folks 😊

 

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Welcome to the Forum Jack .  As you may guess from my name i'm not into Shillings, but im sure lots of useful information will be forthcoming from other members on here who are.  :D

 

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Welcome.  Plenty of attractive coins in the shilling series,  but as others will also tell you, buy the best condition coins you can afford;  for 20th century coins I would suggest at least EF and preferably uncirculated . Every coin has to stand on its own merits. And don’t believe what Ebay sellers tell you, learn to grade coins for yourself and be genuinely critical. Buy a copy of ‘Grading British Coins’ referenced at the top of this page and published by the forum owner. And get to a coin fair when practical, the Midland Coin Fair may be a couple of hours but a worthwhile day out and you will learn a lot.

Best of luck, and don’t be afraid to post your acquisitions here.

Jerry

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Hi Jack,

              Welcome to the forum. You will find a lot of help here, I was in your shoes some 4 years ago and the members here helped me so much giving me guidance on grading etc. I am sure you will enjoy you new hobby. Take a look at the Coin Acquisition of the Week section and you will see many pictures of the type of condition you should be looking for.

Don't be afraid to ask questions or advice we all have had to start from somewhere. When I first started I collected all over the place, but soon realised that I just could not collect everything. So now only collect Sixpences, Threepences and Encased Farthings which is much more manageable.

Also please post some of you coins for us to see and get advice. 

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1 hour ago, jelida said:

Welcome.  Plenty of attractive coins in the shilling series,  but as others will also tell you, buy the best condition coins you can afford;  for 20th century coins I would suggest at least EF and preferably uncirculated . Every coin has to stand on its own merits. And don’t believe what Ebay sellers tell you, learn to grade coins for yourself and be genuinely critical. Buy a copy of ‘Grading British Coins’ referenced at the top of this page and published by the forum owner. And get to a coin fair when practical, the Midland Coin Fair may be a couple of hours but a worthwhile day out and you will learn a lot.

Best of luck, and don’t be afraid to post your acquisitions here.

Jerry

Hi Jerry,

 

Re buying the best condition I can afford - something that I've recently been made aware of, so I might have a bit of upgrading to do!

My "Grading British Coins" arrived today - It'll definitely come in handy; there have been times when someone posts a a picture of a coin and I think "that looks very nice", then someone will comment and say "I'd say aVF". My estimation of what constitutes a "good" coin is apparently way off!

Would love to get down to a coin fair (when we're all allowed out again), not sure if there are any in my neck of the woods but B'ham and London are easy to get to

Thanks for the tips!

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16 minutes ago, UPINSMOKE said:

Hi Jack,

              Welcome to the forum. You will find a lot of help here, I was in your shoes some 4 years ago and the members here helped me so much giving me guidance on grading etc. I am sure you will enjoy you new hobby. Take a look at the Coin Acquisition of the Week section and you will see many pictures of the type of condition you should be looking for.

Don't be afraid to ask questions or advice we all have had to start from somewhere. When I first started I collected all over the place, but soon realised that I just could not collect everything. So now only collect Sixpences, Threepences and Encased Farthings which is much more manageable.

Also please post some of you coins for us to see and get advice. 

HI UPINSMOKE,

Thanks for the welcome :)

Grading is definitely something I'll need help on, I'll post some coins about which I'm unsure of the grade - do excuse the quality; new phone coming at the end of the month with a better camera!

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Hi  Jack - Welcome to the forums  :)

What you call a 'pattern' is actually a 'type' - and you sound already like a type collector rather than date runs (we all start with runs, some of us don't stay there forever!). There are also coins that really are patterns - those are strikes of a new design that is not actually adopted by the Treasury for currency coins. For example, Queen Anne farthings, many late 18th Century copper coins when they were experimenting with machine-produced base metal coins (there was a serious shortage of 'small change'), George V double florins, etc etc.

If you've got Grading British Coins then you're well on the way to being able to grade coins with reasonable accuracy. That plus your other two books are a great start. If you end up wanting to collect scarce shilling varieties then Davies and Groom (2 separate books) are two very useful additions for silver varieties.

Don't rush. Read widely. Coin fairs - at which you will find reputable dealers - are a great way to explore the hobby and learn more.

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In my mind this isn't in too bad condition; lustrous, legible, smoothing of hair and some features - I'd have said VF, maybe gVF?

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gVF?

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No idea on this one, I'd have said VF?

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Not sure if the grey toning on this one reduces the grade or affects it in any way

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Also no idea

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Last one for now (my personal favourite) - no idea how you'd grade it; moreover Grading British Coins doesn't cover pre George III. 

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28 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said:

Hi  Jack - Welcome to the forums  :)

What you call a 'pattern' is actually a 'type' - and you sound already like a type collector rather than date runs (we all start with runs, some of us don't stay there forever!). There are also coins that really are patterns - those are strikes of a new design that is not actually adopted by the Treasury for currency coins. For example, Queen Anne farthings, many late 18th Century copper coins when they were experimenting with machine-produced base metal coins (there was a serious shortage of 'small change'), George V double florins, etc etc.

If you've got Grading British Coins then you're well on the way to being able to grade coins with reasonable accuracy. That plus your other two books are a great start. If you end up wanting to collect scarce shilling varieties then Davies and Groom (2 separate books) are two very useful additions for silver varieties.

Don't rush. Read widely. Coin fairs - at which you will find reputable dealers - are a great way to explore the hobby and learn more.

Thank you for the welcome and for pointing out what a "pattern" is! 

I think I'll hold off on making any more purchases for a while (even thought my buys have been a lot more targeted and informed recently) until I've done a bit more reading; especially when it comes to grading, I'm practically clueless on that front!

I'll definitely be getting myself down to some fairs (hopefully) very soon

Cheers for the tips :) 

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Hi Jack

Collect what you want to collect and what you find interesting and attractive - it's your hobby and your money. But do read all you can about your subject as that may well affect what you end up collecting or specialising in. And do keep detailed records of your purchases together with the best photographs that you can manage (the examples above are pretty good).

You will have years of pleasure (with a little frustration and envy thrown in).

Best of luck.

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I am not the greatest grader - I tend to work more on a similar basis to @Rob : "Do I like it or do I not?"

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that you are doing the same as most new collectors and being a little optimistic. The first three I would say are half to one grade lower than your assessments. The 1817 and 1745 I would put at F+ to aVF. The 1787 at VF+ to aEF - but others are bound to disagree!

By the way, I have been collecting for 20 years and am still in the "date run" mode as I find that more exciting and it allows me to keep many more coins. Shillings are a great starting point - big enough to be clearly visible and identifiable without being so big that the trophy hunters want them.

 

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Fine, gVF but looks cleaned, aVF, nVF, VF and nVF.

Don't worry about the grade if you like it - just don't pay too much without the necessary knowledge. Once you are up to speed it is possible to justify paying over the odds. At the end of the day, collecting is a selfish thing. It's all me me me.

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Books are best for a young or starting out collector , try not to buy at first but borrow from a library , it should not cost you much that way

Buy a few books esp out of print ones - you usually get your money back for them if you get bored .

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My opinion, for what it's worth (and those are certainly good enough to collect):

AF/F (rather flat portrait)

GVF/VF (slightly flattened reverse)

GF

VF (ish..) and no, the grey tone - which is fairly typical - in no way reduces the grade

VF

the reverse is VF, the obverse is hovering around VF too but not quite as good

 

As for paying, yes go with what you like and be prepared to pay over the odds (but not too much!) for something you really want. For example, I took part in my first ever auction today at one of the 'big boys' (Dix Noonan Webb), and paid over book price for a scarce halfcrown in top grade - I wanted it because I have every other one in that series in better-than-EF minimum and I only had the scarce one in VF/GVF. To me, as I could afford it, I was prepared to splash out in order to get it.

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Thanks all for your replies and grading, very much appreciated indeed - I might post a couple more here tomorrow as I have a couple more I'm not too sure of.

For grading more accurately, would you recommend buying a loupe, or is that a bit overkill?

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27 minutes ago, JacktheLad said:

For grading more accurately, would you recommend buying a loupe, or is that a bit overkill?

Some sort of magnification tool is a must, whether that be loupe, magnifying glass or camera.

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5 minutes ago, Nick said:

Some sort of magnification tool is a must, whether that be loupe, magnifying glass or camera.

Fantastic - I've just gone and got a magnifying glass off eBay - few different magnification powers, so that should help :)

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Another thing, what would you recommend for storage - I have (what I think is) a nice folder; is it appropriate or would you recommend something else? I've seen a variety of storage options - are they all much of a muchness?

This is what I'm rocking at the moment

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I would say that will do fine for the time being, it’s a decent German brand. Over time you will come across the various alternatives, from card envelopes up to coin cabinets, and something else might take your fancy. But you do need to find some way of recording variety, price, provenance etc with the coin, perhaps using adjacent pockets for a card coin ticket or similar.

Jerry

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On 3/9/2021 at 9:31 PM, JacktheLad said:

Hi Jerry,

 

Re buying the best condition I can afford - something that I've recently been made aware of, so I might have a bit of upgrading to do!

My "Grading British Coins" arrived today - It'll definitely come in handy; there have been times when someone posts a a picture of a coin and I think "that looks very nice", then someone will comment and say "I'd say aVF". My estimation of what constitutes a "good" coin is apparently way off!

Would love to get down to a coin fair (when we're all allowed out again), not sure if there are any in my neck of the woods but B'ham and London are easy to get to

Thanks for the tips!

That's a really useful addition, and if you're interested in shillings, I'd also recommend David Groom's book "The identification of British 20th Century silver coin varieties". Obviously as the name suggests, it's only 20th century, but it's very good and served me well when I collected 20th century shillings.

As far as coin fairs, if you're in Manchester, then maybe the York coin fair might be a great option for you. What would it be? about 70 odd miles straight along the M62. They're normally held every January and July, and are one of the principal annual coin fairs. In addition to the two you mention.

Anyway welcome to the forum and good luck with the collecting.  

 

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