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Nonmortuus

My first batch of coins to CGS

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Paul does make a valid point, he wants a service that can verify his coins as he's buying them, further confirming his assumption of grades and of problem free coins, and that CGS at the time were the cheapest. If there is any real reason to slab a coin aside from trying to increase it's value, this is it!

It's no different to having a car check service - you pay for someone to confirm that the car is problem free and not hiding anything you can't see easily, the value doesn't increase on the car but you're paying for the verification and peace of mind.

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37 minutes ago, mhcoins said:

But you've paid (i'd guess) a few hundred pounds to do so. Doesn't really make any sense to me but each to their own. 

Not a few hundred pounds at all, probably the cost of a decent George V Halfcrown all in.

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36 minutes ago, Nordle11 said:

Paul does make a valid point, he wants a service that can verify his coins as he's buying them, further confirming his assumption of grades and of problem free coins, and that CGS at the time were the cheapest. If there is any real reason to slab a coin aside from trying to increase it's value, this is it!

It's no different to having a car check service - you pay for someone to confirm that the car is problem free and not hiding anything you can't see easily, the value doesn't increase on the car but you're paying for the verification and peace of mind.

most dealers would do this for free.

and wouldn't take them 3 - 4 months either to give you them back

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not wanting to seem extremely negative always re : CGS but cheapest isn't always best 

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14 minutes ago, mhcoins said:

most dealers would do this for free.

and wouldn't take them 3 - 4 months either to give you them back

Of course, I mean most of us on here already do that for people who post anyway, but I think you're too knowledgable on the subject. What I mean is that you know your coins/grades/dealers/TPGs etc, but for someone who is relatively new and they don't know dealers or collectors who they can trust, what do you do? TPGs are great for that and that's basically what Paul's saying. Don't get me wrong Alan, I wouldn't use a TPG because I don't need to, I also break out slabbed coins because they don't fit in the collection, but I can see the benefit.

RE the waiting time, definitely it's far too long. If I had to slab, the waiting time would stop me from submitting to CGS.

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The difference between CGS and NGC/PCGS - as I understand it and I could be wrong - is that NGC/PCGS offer the verification service for free and CGS does not. In other words, if you know the certificate number of the coin, you can go on the NGC or PCGS site and look it up. That gives the buyer independent verification before he/she buys the coin. 

If you are in the USA - as I and a couple of others are - having the coin slabbed and graded offers greater liquidity. In other words, a raw or uncertified coin is much harder to sell and will probably sell for a lower value simply because it has not been certified. I accept that this is not the case in the UK or other markets as yet. Whether that changes over the coming years remains to be seen.

And, of course, some see the protective value of the slab as desirable.

 

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i'd also guess slabbed coins for insurers are a lot easier to deal with.

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16 minutes ago, jaggy said:

The difference between CGS and NGC/PCGS - as I understand it and I could be wrong - is that NGC/PCGS offer the verification service for free and CGS does not. In other words, if you know the certificate number of the coin, you can go on the NGC or PCGS site and look it up. That gives the buyer independent verification before he/she buys the coin. 

If you are in the USA - as I and a couple of others are - having the coin slabbed and graded offers greater liquidity. In other words, a raw or uncertified coin is much harder to sell and will probably sell for a lower value simply because it has not been certified. I accept that this is not the case in the UK or other markets as yet. Whether that changes over the coming years remains to be seen.

And, of course, some see the protective value of the slab as desirable.

No you're not wrong, although I'm thinking pre-changes as that's when Paul originally sent his coins out. Before they merged with LCA the verification service was free and available to all, however it's a £99 fee to use this service now. This is definitely one of the biggest 'shoot yourself in the foot' moves from them because they're effectively rendering themselves a member only club, which at the moment doesn't have a big enough customer base to warrant being member only. I buy a few CGS slabbed coins here and there and looking them up using the UIN was such a great tool, I probably would even pay a little for it but definitely not £99 just to view coins.

You're probably right too Alan, I bet insurers love pre slabbed collections, especially ones where you can look up the value. :ph34r:

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Guest Big G

Interesting comments. I have 150+ CGS coins and also NGC and PGCS slabbed UK coins. I terms of quality I consider CGS grading to be more accurate and reliable than NGC. PCGS is very good for the highest graded UK coins (MS64 and above).

CGS is very useful to authenticate genuine coins, and with this authentication I have found selling coins easie,r and prices realized have been nearer to book values, and in a few cases above book values (Spink).

As mentioned above, a dealer might authenticate coins, but I have bought coins from a BNTA member (who will not be named) which have been rejected by CGS as not genuine. (A refund was given by the seller).

Slabbed coins are a personal choice, but for reasonably valuable coins make total sense to me.

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I wonder if selling a CGS slab will become more difficult as they are a now defunct company. Not sure why PCGS or NGC would only be good for UNC coins, i suppose everyone has their opinion, but i've seen lesser graded coins in CGS holders also.....I think what people need to realise about the American grading system is what MS 60 and so on actually are in terms of a British grade, some people see an MS grade as UNC when in fact it's only in the upper 60s that this is more the case....

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29 minutes ago, azda said:

I wonder if selling a CGS slab will become more difficult as they are a now defunct company.

In the UK I am not sure how Azda. The coin is the same and the grade attributed to it will be the roughly agreeable to most people. As long as people do what everyone here preaches i.e. buy the coin not the slab, I am not sure what difference it will make in the UK as to what slab/label is on the slab. In the US I take your point that a PCGS slab will carry far more weight than CGS. As long as people continue to buy the coin and not the slab in the UK then selling them should be no harder than before.

Edited by Nonmortuus

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1 hour ago, Nonmortuus said:

In the UK I am not sure how Azda. The coin is the same and the grade attributed to it will be the roughly agreeable to most people. As long as people do what everyone here preaches i.e. buy the coin not the slab, I am not sure what difference it will make in the UK as to what slab/label is on the slab. In the US I take your point that a PCGS slab will carry far more weight than CGS. As long as people continue to buy the coin and not the slab in the UK then selling them should be no harder than before.

Absolutely agree. The big unknown from a UK perspective is whether the market will begin to demand third party grading in the future. Right now it dos not. That may or may not change.

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2 hours ago, Nonmortuus said:

In the UK I am not sure how Azda. The coin is the same and the grade attributed to it will be the roughly agreeable to most people. As long as people do what everyone here preaches i.e. buy the coin not the slab, I am not sure what difference it will make in the UK as to what slab/label is on the slab. In the US I take your point that a PCGS slab will carry far more weight than CGS. As long as people continue to buy the coin and not the slab in the UK then selling them should be no harder than before.

The point i was trying to make was if the CGS slabbers are pissed off enough with the former company to not want to buy CGS graded coins

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Personally, I think there is (or was!) some premium for coins in CGS holders providing the grade is high. E.g. CGS 80+ for later milled crowns and CGS 80/82+ for smaller coins. Most of us would agree with the cliche "buy the coin and not the slab". However, I think a grade on a slab does influence opinions. e.g. if a crown is graded CGS 80, many would assume it is UNC unless observations proved otherwise. The coin is somehow given the benefit of the doubt. Looking at Non's 1913 HC, I confess I can't tell from the photo how much of the loss of details in the obverse is due to wear and how much is due to weak strike. But if it has a grade CGS 75, then many people can believe it is weak strike if they have only a photo to go on.

I have no reasons to think that CGS has graded the coins in this tread inaccurately. But as Paul and Azda have also pointed out, grading early George V by photos alone is just difficult.  Weak strike can be mistaken for wear. With regard to my own 1911 HC, the original auction description was "UNC toning over original mint lustre". With the coin in hand, I don't think the CGS 80 grade given later on is unreasonable. CGS has annoyed me on numerous occasions by long grading times, using scratched or even cracked holders, slabbing foreign matter with the coin etc but I think their grading  is generally OK. (I have always been suspicious of the grades they give to their own coins however)

I do agree with Azda to some extent that LCGS / CGS slabs might be less desirable in the future. Now there is no guarantee of any kind. They have become first party grading. People are now more likely to break open their slabs and eventually the meanings of their grades can fade.

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