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Can't say I see your point. People voted and in general elections they vote in their government. Pray tell me when we elected Jean-Claude Juncker?

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4 minutes ago, Geordie582 said:

Can't say I see your point. People voted and in general elections they vote in their government. Pray tell me when we elected Jean-Claude Juncker?

Think he was voted by the EU Parliament of which Britain was a part of, it was called democracy inside the Parliament when they voted...I believe Britain objected to him, but lets think about this, 49% of the people objected to Brexit, alls fair in love and war

Edited by azda

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and how many of those were for "immigration" without thinking about anything else or the drawbacks of such a vote.

 

Edited by scott

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4 hours ago, jaggy said:

So "older people" are not part of the "people" (as in "will of the people")? Perhaps they should only allow the 18-45 year olds to vote in that case.

Again, a no brainer anti democratic move. In the last "common market" referendum in 1975, another older generation voted, most of whom are now long dead. Where do you draw the line, 60, 65, 70, 75? Well arguably even someone of 75 could have another 25+ years, and are therefore just as much a part of the future as a 20 year old.

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59 minutes ago, scott said:

and how many of those were for "immigration" without thinking about anything else or the drawbacks of such a vote.

 

and how many were for "retaining the status quo" without thinking about anything else or the drawbacks of such a vote.

We all have different priorities, and I accept what is a priority for me is likely to not be the same for others, but that is the joy of democracy you abide by the rules and get your vote which is as worthwhile as anyone else's vote. 

Edited by Colin G.

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Let's have a referendum on plastic - in or out.

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7 hours ago, jelida said:

But the FTSE 100 is still higher than it was 2 weeks ago, and much higher than in May.  Most of that '$350 billion' has already been recovered since this morning. There is a lot of scare-mongering, people trying to justify what they said before the vote, but the decision has been made by the will of the people and we all have to come to terms with that, and hope for a smooth transition  and good outcome for us all a couple of years down the line.

For me the restoration of full democracy for the people of Britain trumps all other issues, and I am ecstatic with the outcome. God bless the working class voter. The right decision has been made, if not always for the right reasons.

Jerry

With you there all the way on 'democracy'. As you say it trumps all else.

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In on the plastic.

I was thinking the Remain side would prevail and there would be a substantial effort at reform. Perhaps Brussels turned into something that was just not part of what was initially anticipated and past efforts at reform may have left an impression that was just no longer an option. I was under the impression Cameron thought the referendum would be a compelling way to create a mandate to remain and make it work. Even the Labour Party leader was in the remain camp thinking reform was possible. Not sure how this will unfold but uncertainty creates greater problems and if Article 50 needs to be used to expedite the separation to create stability then one has to conclude that is why it is there- to be used in the event it is needed.

As for the possible new leader of the Conservatives... not sure. At the moment and as others have pointed out, we are having our own problems across the pond which are quite unfortunate. I look back over the past 75 years and look at some of the brilliant candidates that sought the Presidency and their campaigns fell short. And fast forward to 2016- several have turned in their graves with the one certain candidate that is an embarrassment to civilization. He needs no introduction...

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Given the uncertainty going forward, maybe people will be more questioning of their actions. A lack of trade deal will mean a reversion to WTO rules and the imposition of tariffs. In theory this will make cars more expensive for example. Is it to much to hope that the mindless consumerism of the last few decades could be curtailed as a result?

That would help reduce the current account deficit, which, in any case should be pretty much eliminated as a result of the fall in the sterling exchange rate.

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there are a lot of annoyed 16-17 year old's who couldn't vote due to age, this process will take years, in that time those people could vote, we would lose some 65+ what then? this could start when there is a swing back to remain again.

this is not reversible remember, this has to be done right, oh and those morons who wanted to remain but voted leave to pressure the government, seriously?

 

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1 hour ago, scott said:

there are a lot of annoyed 16-17 year old's who couldn't vote due to age, this process will take years, in that time those people could vote, we would lose some 65+ what then? this could start when there is a swing back to remain again.

this is not reversible remember, this has to be done right, oh and those morons who wanted to remain but voted leave to pressure the government, seriously?

 

Probably won't notice whether we are in or out.

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1 hour ago, Rob said:

 

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Not the result the establishment wanted, if more than 17 million sign I think it should be considered

 

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6 hours ago, Rob said:

Probably won't notice whether we are in or out.

Indeed. What's the old expression?...oh yes, "Where there's no sense there's no feeling".  

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Perhaps it will all end up like this lot did !

M072445.jpg

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People against the establishment, didn't workout too well back then. Unfortunately we wont see farages head on a stake as a warning this time round haha

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3 minutes ago, mhcoins said:

People against the establishment, didn't workout too well back then. Unfortunately we wont see farages head on a stake as a warning this time round haha

Lets not forget Guy Fawkes 

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I think it is deluded to believe that people currently at school can have a broad enough interest in world and national affairs as a group to justify giving them the right to vote. The politicians supporting 16 or 17 years olds voting are doing so on a single issue basis. If you ask a 16 year old do you want to be part of an area with freedom to travel within it as they want, they will say yes every time.

The number of youths with a healthy and functioning knowledge of their own political system, let alone the workings of one to which they have no direct and visible connection would not be conducive to informed decision making. The age of maturity is clearly flexible, but we must be careful not to confuse rights to self determination with an assumption that all people of any age are capable of rational or sensible decision making. Maturity used to be deemed the age 21 and now it is 18. There is a good case for making it higher on some issues.

 

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2 minutes ago, Rob said:

I think it is deluded to believe that people currently at school can have a broad enough interest in world and national affairs as a group to justify giving them the right to vote. The politicians supporting 16 or 17 years olds voting are doing so on a single issue basis. If you ask a 16 year old do you want to be part of an area with freedom to travel within it as they want, they will say yes every time.

The number of youths with a healthy and functioning knowledge of their own political system, let alone the workings of one to which they have no direct and visible connection would not be conducive to informed decision making. The age of maturity is clearly flexible, but we must be careful not to confuse rights to self determination with an assumption that all people of any age are capable of rational or sensible decision making. Maturity used to be deemed the age 21 and now it is 18. There is a good case for making it higher on some issues.

 

on some grounds you are correct however not everyone votes rationally or sensibly. I'm very fearful that this vote has given a bigger platform for racism. For example I know a Asian gentlemen whose parents were immigrants, he's born here, he was educated here, has become a very successful businessman yet yesterday in Newcastle a group pulled up next to him and said we voted out so fuck off back to your own country.  

Perhaps we should introduce an IQ test for voting, if your IQ is the equivalent of a banana you shouldn't be able to vote

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also from what your saying doesn't that mean ...

someone with racist belief shouldn't have the rights to vote on this issue  as they would have voted on one issue 

someone who's business exports purely to the Eu shouldn't be able to vote because of his bias.

 

Pretty sad that people have so little faith in this countries future

 

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Of course there is that particular blowhard over in America who is writhing in delight as he hopes the "anti-establishment" will propel him to the helm in his bid to dissolve NATO, the EU and cozy up to Pootie Poot.  And to think, he can authorise nuclear strikes and other sundry military actions.

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34 minutes ago, mhcoins said:

also from what your saying doesn't that mean ...

someone with racist belief shouldn't have the rights to vote on this issue  as they would have voted on one issue 

someone who's business exports purely to the Eu shouldn't be able to vote because of his bias.

 

Pretty sad that people have so little faith in this countries future

 

No, what I'm saying is that the average teenager couldn't care less about politics as a general issue. Until you go out into the wider world as an adult you are usually insulated from the day to day workings of society. To give children of school age a vote on a subject of such complexity as whether this country is better off within or outside the EU would not result in an informed decision, and would therefore not be responsible in my opinion.

I'm sure you will always find the exception to the rule with a well read person of school age from early teens up, but equally am quite convinced that you will find many more who despite being given the right to vote at the age of 18, are clearly not up to the task of making an informed judgment. To reduce this age to 16 would only serve to increase the numbers of the latter group. Society in this country is hardly being unfair in saying that 18 is the age of maturity as the average 18 year old today will be around for the next 70 years or more when they will be able to cast their vote whether acting in an informed manner or not.

And carrying on from the earlier comment by Scott et al, even 65 year olds can expect to live for another generation today. I've heard a lot of people complain about the old gits determining the futures of the 16 or 17 year olds who don't get to vote. The only people who will suffer unfairly under a voting system which denies you 2 additional years' opportunity to vote in every 70 are those whose opinions are sought only once every  73 years. The EU is the closest approximation the west has to such a system. One vote (not sanctioned by Brussels) every 41 years is hardly a ringing endorsement of democracy, but it is the best we have at the moment. Thank you Mr Cameron.

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3 minutes ago, Rob said:

 . To give children of school age a vote on a subject of such complexity as whether this country is better off within or outside the EU would not result in an informed decision, and would therefore not be responsible in my opinion.

I'm sure you will always find the exception to the rule with a well read person of school age from early teens up, but equally am quite convinced that you will find many more who despite being given the right to vote at the age of 18, are clearly not up to the task of making an informed judgment. To reduce this age to 16 would only serve to increase the numbers of the latter group. Society in this country is hardly being unfair in saying that 18 is the age of maturity as the average 18 year old today will be around for the next 70 years or more when they will be able to cast their vote whether acting in an informed manner or not.

And carrying on from the earlier comment by Scott et al, even 65 year olds can expect to live for another generation today. I've heard a lot of people complain about the old gits determining the futures of the 16 or 17 year olds who don't get to vote. The only people who will suffer unfairly under a voting system which denies you 2 additional years' opportunity to vote in every 70 are those whose opinions are sought only once every  73 years. The EU is the closest approximation the west has to such a system. One vote (not sanctioned by Brussels) every 41 years is hardly a ringing endorsement of democracy, but it is the best we have at the moment. Thank you Mr Cameron.

"No, what I'm saying is that the average teenager couldn't care less about politics as a general issue. Until you go out into the wider world as an adult you are usually insulated from the day to day workings of society."

The same applies for so many who have had the opportunity to vote on this matter 

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