Sword

London Coins is grading this CGS 80 crown as "choice aFDC". Bit optimistic with the marks in the field? Also, the grading table on the CGS website equates CGS 91 to 94 as aFDC (not that I agree some of the conversions in the table in the first place)

Alright, 81K can be used as a deposit for a flat

Just a guess, but every generation will have thought them very beautiful coins, so they probably got passed around and shown off a great deal. That makes sense. They are beautiful indeed.

Can't blame people for trying with their asking prices, esp on Ebay! Just curious, UNC / aFDC gothic crowns are rare. Is this partly because they weren't issued in boxes? (or did the proof versions have boxes?)

There's not a bag of them but about 25 of them were struck (forged) during that period in the 70's/80's by the same person(s)....who, I am told, is alledgedly still around. Do you know why he did not make more? If he could make such good fakes in the 70's / 80's, then I dread to think what will happen in 50 years time. Nothing given he should be pushing up the daisies I didn't mean him, but what forgers in gerneral can do in the future. What worry me is that one day, forgeries will be so good that they can no longer be distinguished from the real thing by visual inspection or weight. Then will all rare coins have to be sold in "slabs" after expensive analysis have been done in labs? Scary! Bear in mind that a few years ago, people were willing to pay a few hundred for a superbly done silver proof repro of a Gothic Crown. Maybe that is the future - affordable repros for those who can't afford originals? Better by far than fakes IMO. I wasn't aware that people were willing to pay such money for a repro. For me, the main attraction of coin collecting is the feeling of owning some history. I like admiring 19 century unc currency coins thinking how lucky they have been. A repro has little more attraction than a photo of a real coin as far as I am conerned! Modern fakes are of course revolting but contemporary fakes can potentially be interesting (not that I collect them). Just one question - how much would you run to for an expertly done 1933 penny? eBay seems to prove they fetch well into three figures. 50 or 60% of what I can sell it for. I normally buy coins for keep and don't worry too much about profit. But I have no interest in owning a repro and so want to get money for my trouble of buying and selling.

There's not a bag of them but about 25 of them were struck (forged) during that period in the 70's/80's by the same person(s)....who, I am told, is alledgedly still around. Do you know why he did not make more? If he could make such good fakes in the 70's / 80's, then I dread to think what will happen in 50 years time. Nothing given he should be pushing up the daisies I didn't mean him, but what forgers in gerneral can do in the future. What worry me is that one day, forgeries will be so good that they can no longer be distinguished from the real thing by visual inspection or weight. Then will all rare coins have to be sold in "slabs" after expensive analysis have been done in labs? Scary! Bear in mind that a few years ago, people were willing to pay a few hundred for a superbly done silver proof repro of a Gothic Crown. Maybe that is the future - affordable repros for those who can't afford originals? Better by far than fakes IMO. I wasn't aware that people were willing to pay such money for a repro. For me, the main attraction of coin collecting is the feeling of owning some history. I like admiring 19 century unc currency coins thinking how lucky they have been. A repro has little more attraction than a photo of a real coin as far as I am conerned! Modern fakes are of course revolting but contemporary fakes can potentially be interesting (not that I collect them).

There's not a bag of them but about 25 of them were struck (forged) during that period in the 70's/80's by the same person(s)....who, I am told, is alledgedly still around. Do you know why he did not make more? If he could make such good fakes in the 70's / 80's, then I dread to think what will happen in 50 years time. Nothing given he should be pushing up the daisies I didn't mean him, but what forgers in gerneral can do in the future. What worry me is that one day, forgeries will be so good that they can no longer be distinguished from the real thing by visual inspection or weight. Then will all rare coins have to be sold in "slabs" after expensive analysis have been done in labs? Scary! As Rob has said that is where provenance is going to play a major part in putting minds at rest on un-slabbed coins. Provenance will certainly play a major part but many qualtiy coins on the market today have no provenance. It is difficult to know if the provenance claimed is genuine unless photos are available.

If it is solder, then the person who did it was a bit sloppy as he put the mount on 10:30 rather than 12 o'clock of the coin

There's not a bag of them but about 25 of them were struck (forged) during that period in the 70's/80's by the same person(s)....who, I am told, is alledgedly still around. Do you know why he did not make more? If he could make such good fakes in the 70's / 80's, then I dread to think what will happen in 50 years time. Nothing given he should be pushing up the daisies I didn't mean him, but what forgers in gerneral can do in the future. What worry me is that one day, forgeries will be so good that they can no longer be distinguished from the real thing by visual inspection or weight. Then will all rare coins have to be sold in "slabs" after expensive analysis have been done in labs? Scary!

There's not a bag of them but about 25 of them were struck (forged) during that period in the 70's/80's by the same person(s)....who, I am told, is alledgedly still around. Do you know why he did not make more? If he could make such good fakes in the 70's / 80's, then I dread to think what will happen in 50 years time.

How easy is it to tell if a coin has wear or simply was weakly struck from an auction photo? With coin in hand, I would check a) if the lustre is continuous loss of toning on the weak areas (with my limited experience, I would be catious and assume it is wear except in clear cut cases) However, this is often not possible from a photo. I suppose if a feature is abnormally weak but the rest of the coin is sharp, then it is probably weak strike. A knowledge of the years / features that are particularly prone to weak striking would be very handy but I have little such knowledge. Hence I have avoided coins described as "weak on high points probably due to striking rather than wear" just to be safe. How can experts tell? Is there just no substitute for experience? Are there many cases which you just can't tell from photos? How much premium is a particularly strong struck unc worth compared to "normal" unc? E.g. most Victorian Old Head currency crowns (even those graded as unc) have lost some detail on the strap across St George's chest due to striking. Would an example with the strap (and other details) fully struck up be a lot more desirable?

I wish things could have stayed that way: it would have made things a lot easier. I guess it still wouldn't have been easy, as you would then be required to choose between a matt-coloured, uninspiring-looking, Fine, and a weakly-struck UNC, which would likely have that bejewelled look of a lustred coin. Even beneath a deep tone, the full-lustred coin is supremely prettier, and a far nicer coin! Which would you choose, how much more would you pay for that? Also, a weak strike isn't an absolute thing - it could range from horribly noticeable which might result in a Fine downgrade, less horrid (VF) or barely noticeable (EF). I wonder how serious weak strucking is compared to the other "defects". For example, if you were keen to get a George VI or William VI halfcrown in unc condition and you have a choice of: 1) Nicely struck example with a trace of cabinet friction (but would still just grade as unc by modern day standards) 2) A weaker struck example with full lustre and no wear (but would only grade as EF or GEF if the loss of details is actually due to wear rather than stricking) 3) Nicely struck example with no wear but has some contact marks (and hence also just grade as unc) Hypothetically, which one would you prefer? I'm not sure who William VI is, but as far as George VI goes, his halfcrowns are common enough in perfect state without having to settle for one of those 3 options. However, if it was a 19thC halfcrown, I think I would go for option 1. No, DEFINITELY option 1! Option 3 might be ok, but it would depend on exactly how the contact marks look. I guess that's true of all coins though - how it looks in hand. Sorry, I meant William IV and George IV. :D I would choose option 1 too. Mainly because of eye appeal

I wish things could have stayed that way: it would have made things a lot easier. I guess it still wouldn't have been easy, as you would then be required to choose between a matt-coloured, uninspiring-looking, Fine, and a weakly-struck UNC, which would likely have that bejewelled look of a lustred coin. Even beneath a deep tone, the full-lustred coin is supremely prettier, and a far nicer coin! Which would you choose, how much more would you pay for that? Also, a weak strike isn't an absolute thing - it could range from horribly noticeable which might result in a Fine downgrade, less horrid (VF) or barely noticeable (EF). I wonder how serious weak strucking is compared to the other "defects". For example, if you were keen to get a George VI or William VI halfcrown in unc condition and you have a choice of: 1) Nicely struck example with a trace of cabinet friction (but would still just grade as unc by modern day standards) 2) A weaker struck example with full lustre and no wear (but would only grade as EF or GEF if the loss of details is actually due to wear rather than stricking) 3) Nicely struck example with no wear but has some contact marks (and hence also just grade as unc) Hypothetically, which one would you prefer?

I wish things could have stayed that way: it would have made things a lot easier. I guess it still wouldn't have been easy, as you would then be required to choose between a matt-coloured, uninspiring-looking, Fine, and a weakly-struck UNC, which would likely have that bejewelled look of a lustred coin. Even beneath a deep tone, the full-lustred coin is supremely prettier, and a far nicer coin! Which would you choose, how much more would you pay for that? For me, probably neither. If the weak-struck UNC example cost twice or more compared to the ciculated fine, then I would prefer to get an honest VF example. For me the VF would have better eye appeal.

Wow! She must be delighted!

Depends on what you are paying. It is given on this link: http://www.coingradingservices.co.uk/?page=service_charge It can take up to 90 days which is far too long in my view. However, at least they are now promising to post promptly after encapsulation.

One significant improvement with CGS is that you now receive an e-mail when your coin has been encapsulated saying that it will be dispatched "within a few days". (I have once waited for more than 3 weeks in the past for coins to get posted.) Thank you Bill if this is due to your feedback to CGS.

Name your price! Here's my 1964 sixpence... That well-known variety "I in GRATIA missing" (still trying to get it accepted as a variety - I live in hope) Very nice! I can trade you my steel two pence without the copper plating variety for it (I made one sometime ago by leaving a 2p in acid for just the right amount of time and ended up with removing all the copper and without damaging the steel at all) Seriously, there is obviously a curiosity value as Gary said earlier. If that were to happen to say a unc. young head crown that would otherwise be worth 2K plus, do you also think the value would be reduced significantly. (I don't have any coin like that but is just curious)

I have dropped a fair number of copper coins into acid over the year (for serious purposes at work and not fooling about). I used concentrated nitric acid which can reduce the weight and size to a fraction within a few minutes. In this case, it does look like that something has reacted with the coin judging by the shape of the letters and colons in the legend and an oxidising acid seem very plausible to me. Proving that it is due to acid is of course (very) difficult. You need to be lucky with guessing the concentration of the acid and time scale, etc etc. that might have caused the desired effect. On a different note, if you have a high grade milled coin (say EF or unc) that is "missing" a letter or has a weak letter in the legend due to say greese, how would that affect its value?

Even rejected coins have UIN I think. All coins were initially allocated UIN prior to grading and the UIN of rejected coins can't really be recyled without causing problems. Is it possible that many of the staff at CGS might also be employed by London Coins? If so, some are simply earning a bit of extra money "on the side" when they have time. Since there is hardly any extra overhead as CGS is using same premises as London Coins, they can keep going even with a small turnover. I don't believe that they spend the same amount of time grading each coin. For example, they are graded over 1000 QE sovereigns. If the grading doesn't affect value, then why put in the effort? Yes Nick, you're right about rejected coins having a UIN, I have just checked mine. I don't know whether any of the graders also work for London Coins, but if they do it could explain how the finances could be made to work, but also introduces more potential for conflict of interest! I think it would be appalling if they don't spend the same care/time grading QE sovereigns (for example) - someone has paid £20 quid a pop and should expect the same service IMO. People who slab those coins probably only want to show they are genuine. Do you think that London Coins themselves would also pay £20 a pop?

Even rejected coins have UIN I think. All coins were initially allocated UIN prior to grading and the UIN of rejected coins can't really be recyled without causing problems. Is it possible that many of the staff at CGS might also be employed by London Coins? If so, some are simply earning a bit of extra money "on the side" when they have time. Since there is hardly any extra overhead as CGS is using same premises as London Coins, they can keep going even with a small turnover. I don't believe that they spend the same amount of time grading each coin. For example, they are graded over 1000 QE sovereigns. If the grading doesn't affect value, then why put in the effort?

Marriage is like a deck of cards VS. All you need at the start are 2 Hearts, at the end all you want is a Club and a Spade!!!! a Heart and a (big) Diamond might also start things off!

CGS members would have received an e-mail "Save Money with CGS Service". The title is very strange as it is actually about price increases from May!! (You can therefore avoid the price increase if you submit your coins in April ... ) Milled Coins worth less than £200: £13.75 (30-90 days) Milled Coins worth less than £2000: £23.75 (30-90 days) Hammered coins less than £2K: £29.99 etc. A price increase to £23.75 from £19.99 for milled coins worth less than 2K is not unreasonable as it has been £19.99 for quite a few years. However, increasing the turn round time from 30 days to 30-90 days is really unhelpful. A potential wait of 3 months is enough to wear out the patience of anyone (esp. those who are planning to sell afterwards). It is a bit of a vicious circle. Excesssive turn round time --> less business --> more price increses + even longer turn round time I think they would do well by promising to return all coins within 30 days with this round of price increase.

What planet have you been living on scott? It's been steel since the early 1990s! I didn't know that! Not that I should, of course! Really? Yep, copper plated steel since 1992. Wow, makes me feel sorry for the future generations of collectors! Imagine the questions on post-decimal.com in 50 years time! "How exactly do you store a piece of steel"? "Can I dip it?" "My tuppence has developed a series of nasty orange bubbles, what can I do?" No real problem as they are plated with copper. If the copper is worn through, then the coin might not be worth collecting for 5000 years