Generic Lad

I think it would be quite easy to cherrypick sovereigns if you had the budget for it. The other day I was at a coin shop and they had a 1911 sovereign and I asked what the mintmark was on it and the owner's response was "they've got mintmarks on these things!?" turned out to be a Sydney mint and therefore not worth that much more than melt, but I can easily see most US coin/bullion dealers sticking all sovereigns regardless of condition/year (except for perhaps Victorian/Gregorian issues) in the scrap bin. I have little doubt that with quite a bit of searching and a good powered loupe you could quite possibly find a 1920-S sovereign selling for bullion in the US. Of course the situation is going to be different in the UK, but over here sovereigns (and half sovereigns) go for little premium over melt, especially when compared to the coins that are in demand, Krugerrands, gold eagles, maple leafs, etc. Of course, with the bullion value alone of a sovereign over $400 right now, it certainly won't be the cheapest coin series to collect!

It is quite disappointing to see this, especially since it seems like TPGers are the norm for any coin ~$50+ here in the US, I even know of a dealer who sells all of his ancient coins slabbed by NGC, despite the fact that the coins (although not junk late Roman bronzes) aren't exactly rare or unusual. The ads in every numismatic magazine seem to be offering PCGS slabbed this, NGC slabbed that, in fact, they've started submitting bulk "monster boxes" of silver eagles to TPGers and selling the "perfect" MS-70s for a huge markup. But adding to the problem of "grade inflation" and fake slabs we now have fake coins getting slabbed as genuine when they are obviously cast copies.

How on earth does the 'middle man' make any kind of profit? Considering the banks wouldn't be paying more than face value for coins they are handing over to the public at face value. They charge the bank fees to drop off coin and to pick it up, so in essence the bank does pay more than face value for most of the coins, but since over here unless you're a collector or a business the chances of you getting boxes and boxes of coin at a time are slim and so its worth the few extra bucks to the bank because they make that money back fairly easily. Different banks in different areas might do things differently, but around here: 1) The bank orders the boxes and pays a small fee per box (boxes are $25 in cents, $100 in nickels, $250 in dimes, $500 in quarters, $500 in halves and I think $1000 in dollars but everyone hates the dollar coin so boxes rarely get ordered) 2) The bank gives out the boxes (at FV) to businesses/some collectors or breaks open the rolls and sells them or gives back a few coins in change 3) When customers bring in loose coin it is ran through a machine that separates the denomination and then puts it in bags (the bags are different depending on the bank but are usually like $50 in cents, $100 in nickels, $500 in dimes, $500 in quarters, $1000 in halves) these bags are then taken by the coin supply company (for a fee) and then ran through their machines, credit the bank's account and then are used later to roll and box up coins.

I'd have to say that chances are that most of the coins in a mint bag should be of the same variety. However, at least in the US, banks don't get coins directly from the mint, rather they use a supplier that buys the coins from the mint (usually an armored car company such as Brinks or Dunbar) and then mixes the bags together to fill rolls and boxes. This does mean that its quite possible to get solid boxes/rolls of a single year (and mint) but you aren't guaranteed by any stretch to get the same variety because most likely multiple bags are being mixed in. However, geography does play a bit in finding rare varieties, as evidenced by certain coins that were once concentrated in a single area. For example I think nearly all examples of the 1955 doubled die cent were found in and around New England and especially in cigarette vending machines.

What is a good pattern reference book or site? I don't really want or need all the technical details, I'd just like a nice little image gallery and stories behind some of them. A price guide isn't needed (I highly doubt I'll even have the opportunity to buy a pattern coin in person!) but color photos would be a plus. Thanks!

Thanks for all the advice/insight! It appears there is no "silver bullet" when it comes to where to look at patterns.

Nice pictures, what's the bottom coin? Its a silver drachm from Heraclea http://www.lightfigures.com/numismat/larissa/show.php?page=25 Is where I got the image from and it shows other examples.

Hm, hard to decide what is the "best" coin, of course I like the Gothic Crown of Queen Victoria the best, but it has a very high price when compared to its rarity and while Gothic/Godless florins are common in circulated grade, they are hard to find in top grade (at least for my budget and location) There are others such as the Una and the Lion pattern and many other pattern coins that are currently out of reach at this time. In absolute top condition, the type 1 standing liberty quarter (US) is amazing, but finding high grade examples is hard. And then there are some stunning ancient coins too

Of course the newest portrait looks the most like her today When it comes to which one I like, I have to say I really like the MG head the best even though it is a bit plain. Personally I think the best representation is found on the new Diamond Jubilee crown, although, naturally I won't be obtaining an example for the collection until the new-ness has worn off and the prices have come down to reasonable levels

Ok, so I was looking at a bunch of Victorian bronze I got a month or so ago and I noticed this farthing, my question is if this was not mint darkened or if it was cleaned (or if I just can't tell what mint darkening looks like ) or otherwise has condition issues I'm also not sure what the big black streak is On the top is a circulated 1896 farthing

What I wonder is if Charles will keep his name and be Charles III or whether he will change it to something with better history. So will we see George VII? Or perhaps Edward IX? Or William V?

Oddly enough I've gotten nothing from Coincraft Would be funny to see if they'd pay international shipping to send their advertisements though

That would be the Gothic Florin/Crown of Queen Victoria for me

If you are in North Carolina, check out Forum Ancient Coins http://www.forumancientcoins.com/ , they don't have as much stock with British coins, but they do deal with some British coins and antiquities every now and then. I believe they are based in Moorehead City. I've bought a few things from them, an Athenian Tetradrachm, a Phillip the Arab double-denarius and just recently a little roman strap-end (bought it on one of their auctions for under $7! circa 3rd-7th century AD).

I wish I could get my dug copper coins to look like that! Did he really think that adding that it was a MD find would really improve his odds? Also, do you think that the pics really are of his coin or that he just Googled 1860 copper penny? Because the 2 pictures look different in the coloring, the large picture shows a nice, red, copper example while the close up shows one that looks very brown and dull.

In that condition, it would be worth more as jewelry than as coins. The coins themselves are damaged and although they are old, I don't think any of them are particularly more valuable than their scrap content. If you are going to sell it, don't sell it for the coins, sell it as jewelry, it will fetch much higher prices that way.

Yeah, I'd love to own a coin with great provenance but, at the lower end of the market where I am, there really isn't much recorded. Really the only coins I have with any sort of provenance at all are the ones passed down to me from my great grandmother nothing too exciting (1921-D Morgan, 1836 Mexican 8 Reales, some generic Canadian coins, etc.) but I have to say it does increase the value, at least to me. Perhaps the most interesting story I've found relating to provenance can be found here: http://www.numsoc.net/imptealby.html By the way, is there really any way to establish provenance from just a generic coin? I've got a Gordian III double-denarius (slabbed by NGC) with a collection number inked on the back, would there really be any way to find out what collection that came from (or even the era that would use ink or paint to paint a number on the reverse of a coin?)

These are given out by Spink with their SCBC. They're good fun. Do you know which years? I have three of their SCBC books (1997, 2004, 2011) and none came with a jigsaw. It was the 2009 edition. Anyone know if you can still send in for it? I've got a 2009 edition of Spinks I bought from a used bookstore and it still had the flier that you could send in and get the jigsaw.

It makes you wonder if the person responsible did it hoping to creqte a future rarity? After all, in purely monetqry terms, his 1p cost him 2.5p! Unless it really was an accident, but you would wonder how on earth it could happen with all the security they must have. Well, I know at least for the US side, there was a guy who was arrested for taking error coins, stealing them, and then selling them to dealers. http://numismaster.com/ta/numis/Article.jsp?ad=article&ArticleId=23748 These presidential dollars lacking the edge lettering were very popular coins for quite some time and fetched a good chunk of change. In fact, there used to be a system that people in the US used to do (I never did). The US mint let you buy "golden dollars" (I think they still had this during the Presidential dollars) on their website for face value and would pay the shipping. Naturally you paid for these with a credit card. Well, you'd still get your cash back or airline miles from using your credit card and then you could slice open the rolls, look for interesting varieties such as missing edge lettering, then take all the rejects back to your bank account, pay off your credit card and do it over and over again to rack up cash back and airline miles. Needless to say, the Mint and credit card companies caught on really fast and stopped those sales.

Amazing how something like that could have happened. Also amazing is that it oriented itself the right way (Queen overstruck by queen, sixpence overstruck by penny). Just a bit too much over my price range I'm hoping I can score something like that in a lot of junk coins sometime.

If you've got any American coins, post them on here, I don't know everything about them but I've got a copy of the red book (basic retail price guide for US coins) and would be happy to provide valuations.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Custom-Type-Set-Prince-Diane-to-a-HAND-PAINTED-Florin-1st-69-WINS-/350582397565?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item51a056da7d What an awesome English type set! I mean, what could be more English about it? I mean, the box is totally from the Royal Mint, I mean, its initials are SAM right? The 1 cent coin is totally British. And a 25p crown totally goes well with a enameled Gothic Florin, a 1964 shilling, threepence and florin. And all of this is completely reasonable for $69! The professional label of this one of a kind set totally makes it worth it!

I try going to just about anywhere I can find old coins, pawn shops, antique malls, garage sales, flea markets, etc. Best find I got was a Seated Liberty half dime engraved love token for a 25 cents. Generally the US coins are all overpriced there (along with the usual mix of counterfeits!) but the "foreign" coins usually go for cheap. As a student, I have a lot more time than money and if it takes 5 hours to find an interesting thing for my collection some Saturday morning I really don't mind it.

Wow... just... wow. I have no words for that listing.

I think Edward was simply wearing his Hypno Glasses!