Sylvester
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Posts posted by Sylvester
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Thought you'd like it,
It occured to me that the seller may up her price if she realised that you wanted it so much!
So I removed the picture and edited my post to not say the year.
Would be grateful if you could keep it hush hush in here until I have it in hand
Chris
Ah well Chris i've got my eye on those Charles II Sixpences i saw at that coin shop. Hopefully i'll put something aside for at least one of those. I think i'll break the bank if i try to get all three, two maybe if i can swindle it.
If she puts the price too far up!!! She should remember Charles ones are harder to get hold of...especially with such nice toning as those.
Oh and i've got a feeling i'm going to end up buying a Gothic Florin. Gorgeous coins, but i can't collect everything. By far my favourite English coin is that florin series, but doing the calculations it proved more achievable to do a sixpence collection. I always wanted something EM, but those florins are calling me.
I don't think i could take on two major collections!!! Arrgghhhh. Why did William Wyon design such a beautiful coin? There's temptation everywhere.
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I have just shown Sylvester a picture of a sixpence I may soon have from a GB dealer....
Having just seen that now!!!
Forget what i said in the post about showing a picture!
Not bad at all.
On my scale of EM Sixpences, Dark Green = easy to get hold of, Red with star = Near impossible. This weighs in at orange. (with a star).
It's the second hardest of the normal (non-proof) George II issue to get. Only being surpassed by the 1728 plain.
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Super, how did you come by those?
Chris
Yes how!!! I surprised you can get them at all...very rare you see them. I've never seen one of the less well know proofs for sale!
Syl.
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Can anyone help me with any information on early coin pressing techniques ( pre Boulton) I am interested in how "overdates" and other mis-strikes occured with early milled coins 1700 - 1750 , (which were presumably made on hand operated presses.) DAS
Overdates are simple. Basically if too many dies are made in a year, or some dies are still useable, or have plenty of life left in them, then all that happens is instead of making a new die the old one has the last digit of the date overpunched with the current date.
So a 1708 die would become a 1709 with the 9 over 8
Similarly 1709 could become 1710with 10 over the 09 bit.
Sylvester.
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I once heard from a US coin dealer who had travelled some considerable distance (by plane) to see a very nice collection of US coins for private sale....
When he arrived the owner said he had cleaned them up while he was on his way to make them more presentable!!!!
What was a collection worth 1000's of pounds was now worth face/bullion value.
As Tommy Cooper would say....'Just like that'
Chris
I don't think i could repeat what i would have said...!
I think i would have attacked the owner with a pitchfork.
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Lindner, SAFE and Lighthouse, the 3 major collecting accessory manufacturers here in Germany (and indeed the world) all produce cleaning/polishing dips for all metals!!!!
It's absolutely criminal, and they should know better!
Everyone in Germany cleans their coins, stupid people.
Chris
I bet you don't like selling coins to Germans then. I mean you just know they are going to take them home and clean them!
There is nothing as depressing (in my opinion) as seeing something like a beautifully blue toned Gothic Crown/Florin after the silvo/brasso has dealt it a blow.
Can't say i have seen it, but sadly i can imagine it.
I bet there are some morons out there that would clean one of those coins, because afterall bright white is obviously the best by far!
Sometimes you could bang their heads together.
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The first one looks like something has got trapped between the coin and die, certainly looks contemporary, and a shame it's right on the bust. Does look a bit brighter than perhaps would be natural, but the tone isn't unplesant.
Second one looks cleaned to me, and probably recently, the tone looks too bright.
Chris
Cheers Chris.
That was my thought. There is also some slight die marks on the reverse. But the coin is a tad bright.
Second one does look cleaned. And recent, it's sad when they do that to them, without the cleaning a coin in such high grade there would be very nice.
Oh well
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I suppose the hairlines could have just been where someone rubbed it with something at some early stage, not necessarily 'cleaning'.
I know it's newer than your area but I know that it's difficult to find a 1902 gold proof coin without hairlines because the mint workers tried to buff the matt surface when the coins came off the press.
I always judge by the tone of the coin, and if you are not happy with the way it looks then don't have it!
I suppose it is likely that people at the time just gave them a little rub to make them look nicer.
I thought that haymarking was due to rusted dies. I know that dies were often used beyond what they should have been, and that they sometimes got corroded or generally scummy, causing incuse damage to the coins they struck.
Maybe cleaning with acid would do a similar thing, but i think that's a bit Star Trek really, as the damage always looks contemporary to me!
But then i'm no expert.
Chris
Chris what do you think of this coin. (Cleaned or just a bad die?) Either way it's got problems. [if i can figure out how to get the image on here!] otherwise just follow the link, i'm not very computer literate i'm afraid...
http://www.coinpeople.com/forums/album_pag....php?pic_id=301
oh and this...
http://www.coinpeople.com/forums/album_pag....php?pic_id=287
Sylvester.
P.S I agree with you on the haymarking, it sounds very plausible.
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Chris what causes haymarking?
(for those that don't know the pitted look on some of the early milled stuff)
Is it a die flaw?
I think it is, but someone else i'm talking to thinks it's because they've been cleaned with acid.
Sylvester.
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Chris i've got a dilemma here...
I've got 2 sixpences (a 1693 and a 1750) that i'm almost certain have been cleaned at some point. Both are VF+ or better. The 1750 i'll be very surprised if it hasn't!
They show all the classic signs the hairlines and everything. BUT...
The more of these coins i'm observing i've noticed that quite a few of the EM sixpences have these hairline scratches heading in varying directions. Sometimes more promenant, sometime not as promenant. Sometime they are still there even if a coin has a genuine tone.
I've noticed it on the half guineas as well. One of mine shows them very well, but the lustre of the coin appears to be the as struck original lustre, not a cleaned lustre.
Therefore what other causes could it be, if not cleaning? Is it because of the high relief of the pre-1816 coins or what?
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Certainly, my pleasure...
In the 1949 Book is says R2, which means 'Very rare'. It also says the same in the 1992 book.
1682 is also listed as R2 in both books. There are some undated CII milled sixpences that are R5-R6 including one on a thicker (possibly shilling) flan.
The rarity scale in the books are as follows:
R7 Only 1 or 2 examples
R6 3-4 examples
R5 5-10 examples
R4 11-20 examples
R3 Extremely rare
R2 Very rare
R Rare
S Scarce
N Normal
C Common
C2 Very common
C3 Extremely common
Chris
I knew about the 1682 one! I'll have to keep an eye out for that one. I saw about 4 Charles II Sixpences in a coin shop, all but one had that usual beautiful blue/black toning. All but one were very expensive. I'm hoping to go back in Jan to pick on up. One might have been a 1682? It certainly was about £200+
The 1680 in about F give or take was the other one without the beautiful tone, and was the affordable one at a measly £75 (i thought that was quite cheap considering it's the key date and all), although i must admit my current financial situation, being Christmas and all meant that £75 was no small sum for me, but i did manage to scrape the funds together and bought it.
I hope i can find a better one when i have the cash available. (If i have the cash available)
Oh and i also saw a King Stephen penny marked up at £350, it was a decent example, you could make out a portrait and you could make out the S in Stiefne, which for this issue is good!
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No mintages in there, instead it gives each coin a rarity scale of about 1-10 and even shows patterns etc where only 2 or 3 examples are known. It's interesting comparing it to the latest 1992 edition. Some coins have actually managed to get more common over the 40+ year gap!
Chris that time machine would come in handy!
But on a more serious note...
Would you just look up the 1680 sixpence and see if it's down as the rarest of the Charles II stuff?
Going on the recent catalogue prices it does seem to be the key date, not by much though.
Sylvester.
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Merry Xmas, Sylvester! And all Early Milled fanatics!
Sylvester, I'll photocopy what I believe to be the most helpful bits. If Chris has your snailmail address, I'll get that from him (he has mine, too). It may take a week or two -- I'm about to close up shop here at the Library, and we'll be closed down until next Friday.
A happy & auspicious New Year to all! May you find an SSC 6d in your pudding! (As for me, I'm simply hoping to not burn the house down with it.)
Eliza
Thanks Eliza, and Chris does have my snail mail somewhere!
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone!
Sylvester.
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Sylvester, have you found the Mint history anywhere? The Geo III book advertised here is a good reference, too. Let me know if you want photocopies.
--Eliza
Haven't found it i'm afraid.
But i'd be very happy of any of those photocopies regarding either sixpences or Half guineas (that should cut down the sheer amount both of us have to wade through). Just the basics i don't want to use up all your photocopying credits!
If you don't mind of course!
Sylvester.
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Nooooooo! You are seriously trying to make me buy something. Both are well out of my price range. But that Queen Anne one...ou la la!
Sylvester.
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I'm keeping well out of it!
Sylvester...
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Funny you should say that old chap, I got 3 bank fresh 2003A German 1 Euro coins today.
I know they are only monopoly Euro money, but who knows, someone may want to buy them from my great great grandson in 170 years.
Chris
Make that 1700 years and you might be onto something!
Sylvester...
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Just like to say that for the first time ever i've recieved a decent lustrous new(ish) £2 coin in change, a 2003 one too...as they say; 'very noyce'
Sylvester.
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Oli and Sylvester, you are young (I mean i'm only 25, but anyway) and whether your dates of birth in the information area are true or not, I can tell you are young. I was very much like that too not so long ago. The things you see around you get you down, that's clear, but I would be very suprised if over the next few years your opinions don't mature slightly, you'll think the same about some things, but you will realise a lot of things, and you will realise that your line on certain issues was not sometimes the right one.
I didn't lie about my age...only 6 years behind you Chris.
I have changed many of my political ideas already since being at Uni, incredibly in the opposite direction to what most people expected.
Most people come out of Uni with left-wing ideas, except there seems to be more and more of us right-wingers filtering into that equation. I just seem to be heading further right, (to reactionary conservatism) but clearly not towards fascism...since fascists believe in equal rights for whatever ethnic group they happen to be in, but they ignore everyone else.
I on the other hand care little for equality, call me 'bourgeoisie' as the Marxists would say, but i like having possessions and lots of silver lying around, would i share it out freely like socialists suggest, even to fellow Britains? No i wouldn't, i have often been likened to Ebeneezer Scrooge and Monty Burns. I think i'm a bit of a capitalist, i just like collecting money, new/old/legal tender/things which haven't been legal tender for years...
It's always nice to have more of something than someone else, to know you have a better coin, or you did better in an exam, or the such. I think it's human nature to be that way, and there's not point in trying to change it.
That's why communism will never work, humans by nature are greedy and selfish to some degree, (the ones that deny it are plain lying). Just like some people are weak and tend to prefer following orders and know exactly who's in charge, and others are strong and will refuse to take orders. Alpha people and beta people, or so i heard it referred to.
With regards to the Labour Party, i think they are going totalitarian, Blair went to war despite the country opposing it.
Blair will refuse to hold a referendum because he knows he'll lose. Blair is going against the population here and he knows it. What i think we've got here is a classic case of a facade of 'Democracy' where the people are fooled into believing they've got rights when in actual fact the government is pretty much doing it's own thing, like a dictatorship.
The only thing that stops it becoming an overt one is the precarious power balance between the three parties. If the opposition crumbled so there was no opposition, except for the small parties like the Green Party, i don't think Blair would bother holding elections at all...afterall he won't step down for Gorden Brown; despite the fact they made an agreement prior to 1997 to that effect...
All constitutional democracies are a lie, the only real type of democracy is a radical democracy of Ancient Greece, but as i stated earlier human greed would quickly corrupt that...
So there is no good system. Might as well go to feudalism at least that way we're not kiddig ourselves any more.
I also don't think MPs should be paid (except for travel expenses and hotel expenses whilst in session), i think they should do it volunterily, that should weed out the ones that are in it to line their own pockets and stuff whatever the rest of the country thinks/feels. Afterall the monarchs never got paid for what they did, they were expected to live off of their own lands. The Parliaments were unpaid in the 16th century i believe also?
I am also totally opposed to Blair stripping the hereditary power from the Lords. I think the Lords should be totally hereditary to counterbalance the totally elected Commons, and things like Thatcher should be kicked out of both.
Now there is a woman i didn't like. She ruined the strong industry and thus money making export deals of the country...now we are reduced to buying stuff in, and consequently higher unemployment...bad move letting her in office at all, let alone on three separate occasions...
Sylvester.
I don't know about you Chris but i've stuck to some of my ideas for the past 10 or so years throughout, school, college and uni...and despite all the left wing influences on me, very few have sunk in...some might have, like total religious toleration (well almost...although i do seem to get angry at Christians a bit for what they did to all the other religions over the years), and total equality of males and females...but that's about it...
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I agree with Oli the future is with the US not Europe.
I consider myself British, not European, i never have and never will consider myself European. Therefore i am totally against the Euro. But just to give you an idea of my political views, (not on immigration and the likes because this is not the place to discuss it), but my approach to lets say coinage, is if i had been alive when we went decimal i would have been totally against it, and i still am.
If i got in power (i hope for everyone else i don't) i would take us straight back to pre-decimal, ban metric (except in science...where it makes far more sense...don't ask there is a logical argument in there somewhere!) and i'd ressurrect the gold and silver standards.
But being a reactionary conservative, who has studied so much medieval history, probably too much, i am a bit too pro-monarchist and think that the monarch should have far more say, and should run the country (if it worked in 1499...then why change?)...put it this way the Queen could do a much better job of it than Butcher Blair...and if i had been around in the French Revolution (if i'd been French) i would have supported the absolute monarchy. Nothing like tradition.
Basically i'm one of these people that doesn't hate people from other countries but i think each and every country should be proud of what it stands for...us English are just far too laid back. It's about time we took a leaf out of the US's book and had more Union Jacks flying about the place, one in all the school classrooms for a start. And school children should be drilled on the National anthem...afterall none of us know the words! (Not many Frenchmen or Americans could say that).
Personally i also think the national anthem should be changed from 'God Save the Queen', to 'Rule Britannia'...Why? well i object to the God bit, not the Queen bit like most people object to.
I'm sure i mentionned in a previous thread that i didn't like Charles I, but i would still have supported him because i hated Cromwell somewhat more...the man that banned Christmas/gambling/doing anything on a sunday/not going to church/theatre/fun in general...
So that's where i stand...a bit radical but in a reactionary sort of way.
Sylvester...
You can tell i didn't vote for Mr Blair.
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No idea Meredith, i often get asked about tokens but don;t have any books on them yet. I know it's quite a wide subject.
I wonder if Sylvester the history student can help on 'Willian Brewster'
Sylvester, are you out there?
Chris
www.predecimal.com
Who's William Brewster?
Having just done a google search, William Brewster appears to have had something to do with the Mayflower if it's the same guy
as on your coin, and all i can figure out is that 1) He must have been famous, 2) He was born in Nottinghamshire, 3) He's dead...
And that's about it...
Ah on second thoughts having just checked the search results again...would you believe it there's another William Brewster...(yes he's also dead) follow this link. (i've only glanced at it but it contains the words Brandon, and William Brewster)... I'm still none the wiser i'm afraid...
http://www.brandon-heritage.co.uk/miscellaneous.html
Sylvester.
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Glad you got it, i'm sure someone expert enough could remove the silver loop and it would hardly be noticable, but then I suppose it is original exactly how it is.
Anyone else that makes 100 useful, well placed posts will also get a free coin!
(I have a number of Churchill crowns gathering dust!)
Chris
That's just killed it Chris...
You'd be lucky to get another post now!
Sylvester.
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Chris...
The sixpence arrived in the post today. Thanks alot for it! Pretty nice coin despite all the poor things it's seen, i bet that coin could tell us a thing or two! I now have a stand in 1745L sixpence...thanks again.
Sylvester.
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Just to put an end to this one (hopefully)...
The programme that started people emailing about their bloody 2 pees on the BBC did state correctly that it was the 1983 Two pence with 'New Pence' on it that is the rare one. Perhaps the programme should have made clearer that none of the other are rare or valuable, but it didn't.
So it seems that the Great British public must be either completely stupid to think on average 3-5 of the 2 pees in their pockets are worth £400 each, or the story seems to have evolved in a Chinese whisper style.
'My brother told me 2 pees from 1983 with 'new pence' on were rare, he saw it on the telly'. 'I told my Mum, Dad and 6 friends all 2 pees with 'new pence' on them were rare, because I couldn't remember the date and it probably doesn't matter, my brother saw it on the telly so it must be true!'. Those 8 people with the wrong information told 10 people per week, and those 10 people told another 10 people the following week.
But just to make absolutely sure, those 800 people within 2 weeks that have the wrong information decide to look on the internet to see if the rumour is true....Just to make sure that this months mortgage payment or the years car insurance can actually be paid of with a special rare 2 pee that each of the 800 people coincidently own at least 5 of...
Those 800 people find my website and about 600 of them are observant enough to see the link on the top of the home page that points at the correct information about the 2 pee rumour that I posted there about a week after the rumour started. What about the other 200 people?
The other 200 people are far too concerned by the fact that their 2 pees MUST be worth almost £1000 that in the whipped up frenzy they don't really look at my site, they don't read it, they don't notice the bloody link at the top of the main page. Instead they grab my email address from the contact area, or they use the message facility on the site, and they write me a charming email....
'i have 5 of those rare 2 pees how much will you give me for them?'
At first my replies were quite polite: 'I'm sorry, it's only the 1983 2p with 'New Pence' on it that's rare, see here:
http://www.predecimal.com/newpence.htm
After about 50, my replies were along the lines of: 'I'll give you 10p for them! They aren't worth anything more than 2p, see here:
http://www.predecimal.com/newpence.htm
That's about as sarcastic as it got and after 100 or more what I really meant to say was: 'What are you talking about? They made 100's of millions of the bloody things. Did you not see the link at the top of my home page? Your coins are worth 10p.
What are the chances 10p can suddenly turn into £1,500? The information is on the site, read it, leave me alone!'.
So for those of you that still think your 2 pees are worth £300, SEE HERE:
http://www.predecimal.com/newpence.htm
Or i'm likely to get very nasty!
Chris
www.predecimal.com
Well Chris as i once read regarding the 1997 £2, and i suppose you could also do this with the 2p 'new pence' coins...
Next time someone asks tell them you have a 'new pence' coin and you are willing to sell it to them for £20, the amount of 'believers' that think that the 'new pence' coins are worth a fortune will suddenly become sceptical once they realise that they are not getting something for nothing, and will not part with the £20 mark my words...
Then again you also get so of the persistant types that if you offered to sell them one for £20, they'd offer you £30 for being so generous and insist that you take it. Some people are just born mugs...
Sylvester.
Most valuable coin you own.....
in Free for all
Posted
I was going to say, that 1954 penny would be a killer in any collection.
I once tried to collect Brass Threepences, but i was amazed at how expensive the BU ones could get. (High for the series that is, it's nothing in comparison to what i'm on now) You know the rounded corners varities and the 1950 and 1951 specimens, going for £60+ upto £200. And many dealers don't distinguish which variety they are selling, round corners or sharp corners, and the difference is astounding in prices for some dates, 1946 *cough*.
Only proofs i see come up regularly are the 1887, 1893, 1902 (where the proofs are sometimes cheaper!) 1911, 1927? was it '27 or '28? 1937, 1953 and everyone's favourite 1970.
There are some other years i've forgotten, 1853? and the preceeding coronation years. Forgive me but i've been out of Modern Milled for a year or two.