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Sylvester
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Content Count
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Posts posted by Sylvester
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My personal fave is the shield and wreath reverse of the Vicky Young Head (as on sovereigns, crowns and half crowns). Love the gothic coins and the Edward VII florins.
I also really like the overly fussy ornamental shields of George IV! I always thought the Wyon/Baptiste Merlen era of George IV (c.1826-1830) was the pinnacle of modern designs, closely followed by George V's 1910s issues.
The first 50 years of Victoria's reign on the whole was fairly insipid but only because I have little liking for 'wreath with value' reverses.
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As an American, you may need a little explanation as to the subtext of John's post. Have you heard of cockney rhyming slang? (apples and pears = stairs, skin and blister = sister etc.). Will 'threepenny bits' is rhyming slang for something (or things), but I'll let you work that out for yourself...
To be honest I hadn't actually spotted that, that's not one i've heard before! You don't tend to hear much cockney rhyming slang round these parts.
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See proved it!
So no there is no definate list. I don't own any Churchill crowns either, although I used to have one, unfortunately it was so ugly I had to get rid of it before it traumatised me.
I actually really like the George VI florins too, not necessarily because it's the great design (which it isn't), but because I used to like getting them in change, being born in 1984 I missed the joys of predecimal and thus the florins were the only ones I encountered in their natural environment (strangely I never saw predecimal shillings circulating alongside the old 5ps), and of course the George VI florins were more interesting than the Lizzie florins because they had a different monarch on them.
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Talk about the law being open to interpretation, hence so many unexpected convictions/or failed convictions!
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This no doubt means that converting sovereigns into jewelry is actually illegal. As all sovereigns dated 1838 or later (that are the minimum circulation weight or above) are deemed legal tender and thus covered by the said acts.
Where does all this leave forgotten denominations such as the double florin, which as far as I recall were never demonetised?
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Hi jacking the thread a bit...sorry.
The Owl seems to have popularity.I have also noticed this for coins with puffins on the reverse.
Is there a coin out there which every collector of British coins has tucked away?
May I suggest a few?
1797 cartwheel 1d/2d
1951 1d
Victorian veiled head 1d
1967 1d
The answer to that question is no then. I've been collecting coins for over 20 years and well i've I don't have any of the first four coins. I do have some 1967 pennies but they were a gift, there's no way on earth I'd actually buy one!
I suppose it shows our collecting bias. Every coin you list is copper or bronze and I've never collected copper or bronze coins. If I had made the list it would look more like this;
Elizabeth II florin
George VI florin
Bun Head Penny
Brass Threepence
Wren Farthing
1967 halfpenny
Elizabeth II shilling
And the only reason I list these is because these are the coins most people in the UK who aren't collectors are likely to ask the question 'i've found an old coin, what's it worth?' That and most of us probably have a few of them lying around (unspent change in the case of the florins and shillings from about 20 odd years ago), even if we don't actually collect any of them per say.
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I saw a few for sale in the now closed York Antiques centre a few years back and if they hadn't had holes in the reverse side I would have bought one!
Really pretty coins for sure, I'd like one eventually!
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Well what about that! I just took an executive decision for my coins on eBay that I wasn't going to give grades anymore unless they are aUNC or UNC. With the misuse of grades out there, being eBay stingiest grader is not a very clever thing to be.
thank you Sylvester, you have given me one of those unexpected confirmations!
I have my uses!
A wise move i'd say.My philosophy is that grading is entirely subjective, I mean take the 'scientific' US grading companies whose goal is to make it as objective and precise as possible, one of their grading criteria is 'eye appeal'! Eye appeal is entirely subjective. I've seen coins described as 'beautifully toned' that I think 'eeewww, what a vile colour'. Especially those with rainbow colours (oil spills) or mustard yellows.
Grading isn't objective, it's entirely subjective. For example; buyers tend to undergrade (looking for problems), sellers tend to overgrade, it's amazing how a coin's grade can slide slightly upwards once you own it and see it in hand, you suddenly start looking for the positives rather than the negatives. Often without knowing it either.
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I think half the problem is that we are such a difficult bunch to please, we ourselves are constantly discussing technical aspects of grades and disagreeing so how on earth does anyone come up with a scale that will please all of us
I have never been an advocate of slabbing, but I must admit I am now slowly warming to the idea, but I still have reservations.
I don't see the issue with not achieving a grade of 100, in much the same way as I am the kind of person who does not get ate up about the fact that a coin can never literally be uncirculated.
They offer a service that will benefit some collectors (including themselves) but you can either use it or not, it is that simple
From my experience to date, they give me a lot more confidence in their abilities than any of the US grading companies
I tend to agree with you.
I have to say though I'm not all that fussed about grades of coins these days, I tend to not bother grading coins anymore (or even looking at the book price for an issue), I just buy based on eye appeal now, if I like it and find the coin to be an attractive specimen (or one of a type I want and can afford) then I tend to just buy it. I suppose the days I spent dabbling in hammered coins had more of an impact upon my collecting habits and attitudes than I first realised. I certainly enjoy collecting coins more than I used to now I'm buying on eye appeal rather than 'grade' (the two of which don't necessarily go hand in hand).
The only exception to this is my decimals which I expect to be pristine.
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It's weirder than you think;
Following coins were struck in coin alignment;
1826 £5
1823-1826 £2
1831 £2
1761-1786 £1/1/-
1817-1887 £1
1762-1786 10/6d
1817-1887 10/-
1818-1834 5/-
1844-1853 5/-
1820-1887 2/6d
1849-1887 2/-
1763 1/-
1821-1887 1/-
1821-1887 6d
1762-1786 Maundy
1822-1887 Maundy
1838-1887 3d
1797 2d
1797-1808 1d
1770-1807 1/2d
1771-1807 1/4d
1821-1825 1/4d
1842-1868 1/8d
Following coins were struck in medal alignment;
1839 £5
1787-1799 £1/1/-
1787-1813 10/6d
1797-1813 7/-
1804 $1 Bank of England
1839 5/-
1811-1816 3/- Bank Token
1816-1820 2/6d
1811-1816 18d Bank Token
1787 & 1798 1/-
1816-1820 1/-
1787 6d
1816-1820 6d
1792-1820 Maundy
1836-1888 4d
1825-1860 1d
1825-1860 1/2d
1826-1860 1/4d
Notice the 1839 proofs tend to be medal alignment. As for the rest, well I could never figure out why they switched back to coin alignment in George IV's reign for the silver but then changed the copper coinage from coin alignment to medal alignment!
Most of the mainstream silver from 1816 was turned out in medal alignment during George III's reign, all except the crown that is. Why? Who knows...
The gold swapped from coin alignment to medal alignment when the spade guineas arrived, but then reverted back to coin alignment when the sovereigns were introduced in 1817.
The groat seems to follow the pattern of the base metal coins rather than the silver of its era.
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It has a Milled Edge Sylvester.
I had a look in my copy of 'Spink' and the only mention of an UP/UP Die Axis is for a 1839 Proof Coin. But if it has a Milled Edge as opposed to a Plain Edge it can't be a Proof?
So I have no idea either why the OBV/REV is UP/UP as opposed to UP/DOWN as it is for the other coins.
Perhaps a First Issue? Or part of a Set? Or maybe just a mix up at the Royal Mint? lol
No it can't be a proof, according to Coincraft all proofs have plain edges for 1839.
Perhaps I ought to check through my groats, I never thought to look for plain edge coins!
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Can't beat that, though i did find a wren farthing in my change once, which I assume was circulating as a 1p
I have spent halfpennies as 2p before and post-47 shillings as 10p coins, merely hoping some kid would stumble upon it and catch the coin collecting bug. Haven't done it in a long, long time though (about 1998). I should buy some 50% silver shillings and see if I can sneak a few of those into circulation. I think there's a lot less things of interest currently in circulation to grab a child's mind and turn them into collectors. I know it was the predecimals that did it for me.
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I've just found something in my change that you don't see everday.
An 1839 Fourpence! lol
It must have been given to me as a 5p Coin, although I'm not sure how it wasn't noticed as it is slightly smaller and a lot thinner than a 5p Coin. Saying that it was VERY dirty until I gently gave it a little wash in warm soapy water.
The interesting thing is, both the OBV and REV are both facing the same way. I was under the impression that until the 1887 'Jubilee Head' Issues that with Silver Coins the OBV and REV were opposite?
Any thoughts?
Not often you see one of those in change!
For this particular issue medal alignment is standard, no idea why they should be the opposite to most other coins in circulation at the time but there you go.
Is the edge milled or plain? If it's plain you've got yourself a proof, if it's milled it's the bog standard circulation variety.
Cool find nonetheless! Oldest circulating coin find on the forum?
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this one i know is a london mint eddy
if anyone could id the class that would be great
It's either a late Edward I (Class 10C-10E) or an Edward II, really difficult to tell with this one, the face being worn, if it is an Edward II it's not Class 11, 12 unlikely as centre fleur looks more curved than wedgeshaped. Class 13 onwards more likely. Pictures in Coincraft really not very helpful for this. As my North catalogue is unavailable at present time I really cannot be more specfic than this, sorry!
Difficult ones London and Canterbury as they were the main two mints and they minted most classes.
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last but not least
canterbury edward penny
once again a class would be lovely
That's an Edward II penny, however, it's difficult to tell which class due to the E being worn away and the nose being indented. It could be any of class 11B/11C or 15A/B/C.
I haven't got access to my North catalogues at this time, so I can't be clearer than that.
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Perhaps they should alter their scale down 1 point to 99?
Well in effect that's probably what we've got, in all but name.
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This is perfectly normal. They basically mean this is the best coin of its type 'submitted to them', it doesn't mean it is the best in existence. It'd be embarrasing if they'd given it the top grade and then something better was submitted afterwards!
US coin grading companies have MS70 as the highest grade possible, and MS60 as the lowest grade considered UNC. Most coins fall into the MS62-MS65 category, a tiny percent grade MS66-MS68 but grades above this are uncommon (except for modern BU strikes) some of which are graded MS70. However, there has been much discussion on US forums as to whether MS70 is actually possible, since 70 is absolute perfection (no marks, dings, blemishes, scratches, hairlines, minimum of 100% uninterrupted lustre, full strike no areas of weakness, sharp well defined details and lettering) and thus no coin can be considered perfect due to the way they are manufactured. So the argument was MS69 should be the highest grade possible.
I suppose CGS have decided that 100 is perfect, no coins (at least as evidenced yet so far) will ever reach that mark. 90 will probably be the benchmark for top quality UNC, if anything comes along that is a BU strike but is almost prooflike (deep cameo) and has all lustre and no marks or any other minute imperfections I suppose that it could be graded higher than 90. The only coins that would fall into this category though are going to be 'first strikes', the first hundred or so coins from a new die pairing where everything is fresh and sharp.
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I bought a 20p mule off ebay back in Jan 2009 for about £20, I kind of kick myself because the week before they were only £15! I looked two weeks later to buy another and by that time they were £80+ so I thought, no chance.
I want a few more of the mules, but there's no way i'd pay any more than £20 for one!
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Ah now there's an idea, next time i'm on the 2p machines I might slip a few halfpennies in, you never know it might just be a nice hook to start off a new collector! Some might think it dishonest to offload an old coin in place of a 2p, but at the end of the day I always walk into those arcades with a bag full of 2ps and I leave without one to my name, so I suppose it all works out!
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Ha, I was wondering about that just the other day. The Queen is well into her 80s, so it's not exactly an outside bet that there might be a monarch change on the cards within the next 10 years. What happens with the coin designs I was wondering? Will we just get new obverses? Or will we (like tradition before) have a sweeping change in designs?
Will we ever get the rest of Series F banknotes before this happens? If it's going to be five years between each denomination, it could be touch and go! Indeed as the last denomination arrives the £20 will be nearing retirement age!
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The other factor perhaps is the quality of the metal used to make the coins. Perhaps the metal used in the more recent coins is not as durable as it once was and that may also add to the seemingly rapid wear and overall condition of the coins?
I'm not expert in this area by any standard, but they could be possible reasons.
It may well be something as simple as that, there's no wayto know for sure though!
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I couldn't agree with you more. For me the purest form of coin collecting is sifting through one's change looking for elusive varieties.
Exactly, the thrill of the chase.
I known others have absolutely no interest in varieties, but it is worth noting that every working die produced has its own unique fingerprint, so an understanding of these differences would go a long way to combating forgeries and verifying the authenticity of coins in one's collection.
Agreed.
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Lower relief coins wear faster? May be that's the reason why coins since 2008 look so bad? Coins with some relief wear on the high points first and foremost, coins with very little wear across everything. Only speculation of course.
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Ha I remember those days Chris! What ever happened to Oli I wonder? To my mind a few others came later William, Master JMD etc.
I joined briefly in 2005 before rediscovering these joys in 2009, and back then Master JMD was one of the leading lights here (quite a youngster wasn't he?). Whatever happened to the young fellow?
Yes he was a lot younger. About 11 or so I think (IIRC) when he joined (about 2003/4), I haven't seen or heard anything from him for a long time. He was here until around 2005/6, maybe longer, but I left for while when I was busy with university and work (+ lost my internet connection for several months), by the time I came back he'd left. As have many others.
a use for '67 pennies
in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
Posted
The large 10p was demonetised at the end of June 1993, I have a faint recollection (but I may be wrong) that the large 50p was demonetised in 1998.