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Predecimal.com
Sylvester
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Content Count
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Posts posted by Sylvester
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I have to admit that even I have a soft spot for florins. Gothics are beautiful, Vicky Old Heads are cool, Edward VIIs are one of my favourites and I have fond memories of the George VI ones. I miss seeing them in change.
Oh and welcome.
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It could have been better. I personally like the old 50p design, that is probably my favourite Britannia design (although the Edward VII florins were quite something).
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It's nice to be back once more.
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I actually quite like the new one, so I voted for that.
The Gillick, I have fond memories of, but the relief - or rather definition - was always quite poor and so I just couldn't vote for it.
The Machin, I do like, simply because it shows more than just the head, but was it much of a likeness of the Queen back in 1965 when it was first used?
The Maklouf, my least favourite, it looked younger than the Queen did back in 1985. Fairly utilitarian and bland portrait.
The Rank Broadley was a vast improvement as it actually looked like the Queen and up until this new one was probably the most lifelike of any of the Queen's previous portraits.
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With regards to the 1758 shillings and sixpences being available in some quantities it's because they were struck for a number of years, into the early part of George IIIs reign.
I suspect even at this point though silver had been fairly scarce for a while. The larger silver coins had dried up earlier in the 1750s, I have read articles in the past that stated that even the great silver recoinage of 1696-8 period was not successful and that silver shortages were still somewhat problematic, even after weeding out the substandard hammered remnants - although not to the extent of George III's reign.
I don't think much silver was coined (at least smaller silver - shillings & sixpences) in James II or William and Mary's reign - halfcrowns are more prominent. The basic problem being that the silver coin face values were undervalued - British silver coins were worth more melted down on the continent. The inverse is true of gold though, Britain had a plentiful supply of gold right through from Charles II to the Napoleonic period.
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I think Halfpenny Jon and William kind of grew out of coins a bit I think, i.e. got on with learning whatever they were learning - no doubt boozing and babes and babies may have got in the way for some of the early members. I bought some coins off both Jon and William many years ago. And for young people now there is social networking. Forum? What's a forum, we may as well all be using ZX81's, we're so old.
Youngster. N00b. ZX81? Hah! Some of us remember the ZX80...
When I was a lad, we had quills.
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I don't think it's quite 11 years yet, but it can't be that far off, November I think.
Also Jon and William iirc.
I often wonder what happened to all those youngsters, they were aged in the 10-15 age range back then, they'll all be in their early to mid-20s now! Probably at uni or got families now, my how the time has flown by. Scary thought!
I'm glad to be back, it's been a while. Chris' got me working on a little project, so hopefully I'll be nipping in and out of the forum for a while.
How are you getting on anyway?
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Congratulations! You've been a rock and a pillar.
Here's to another ten years!
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I did start collecting from change about a couple of years before decimalisation. I don't think the mix available was much different to now, ok you could find the very occassional pre-George VI but it was rare. Most of that kind of thing came from grandparents etc.
Ah but it's still different, because whilst it may have been rare it was still a possibility. For example in 1992 I saw a 1930s George V florin in circulation. So even though it was rare and only happened once in all those years, it did happen. The lady who worked at the local post office kept it. See that's not even a possibility now not with legal tender anyhow. The only thing you can get these days is predecimals used deceptively, such as farthings, halfpennies and shillings as 1p, 2p and 10p coins respectively, although that's seldom now. I remember it used to happen more frequently in the early 1990s. I can't remember the last time I got a predecimal in change (which I'd love to happen), or even an old 5p.
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Consider 50 years ago, how many collectors collected then modern coins. Go back 100 years and how many collectors collected the then modern coins. It's not something new to call in coins to melt. There's still more than enough pre-decimal out there to keep us collectors happy forever. I don't expect the early decimal to be any different to the collectors of fifty year hence.I think I didn't make my point very clear, what I meant was not that coins would be melted and thus unavailable for collectors to buy, collectors will always be able to buy decimal coins due to the huge mintages. What I meant was that they'd be nothing of great interest actually circulating (or say scarce circulating), say for you to hunt down and find in change. With this I very much agree with Tom, we have nothing compared to the US and Switzerland where you can pull coins 100+ years out of circulation (by that I mean coins that are circulating as legal tender as they were meant to).
How many collectors on here collect coins from change? Probably less than buy coins I suspect. Collecting coins through buying and collecting coins through change are two completely different experiences, at least for me anyhow. It's a bit like going to an auction/antiques house vs going metal detecting. One you know you're going to get something decent, the other you might find nothing. It's the thrill of the chase.
British coins just don't have that, and for us folks born in the decimal era, we've never really had the chance to enjoy that. Personally I'd love to go to Switzerland and spend many hours searching through change, that'd be cool.Actually the most fun I've had buying coins is searching through the junk boxes, that's fantastic, love it. Which probably surprises Chris considering the kinds of coins I have specialised in over the years.
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OK, to kids today I guess 1971 is 100 years ago, or I should say 1991 as you won't find any of the original pre-decimal sized 5p or 10ps any more ... but despite the Mint's best efforts(?) I can't see many people getting excited about coins stretching back all of 22 years ..Heck, I can't even get excited about it either, and I collect coins. I still find it hard to get even remotely interested in the 1970s bronzes, let alone the small 5p. The only vaguely interesting things about the modern coinage to me is the 1988 £1 coin (not rare really, but cool to find one in circulation) and the 10p die varieties, to me that's like hunting down a rare coin, lets face it none of the dates of current coins are actually rare, or likely to ever be, so it's got to rivet counting...
Of course with the cupronickel 10p coins withdrawn, well that just leaves the 1988 £1 coin as the little ray of sunshine. I can't get excited about the commemorative coins because I despise commemoratives, talk about forced... 250 years of some other event or person's birth/death that we neither care about or even were aware of. Please save stuff like that for stamps. Production of coins for commerce really seems like a second priority, and I seen more coins with flaws in the last few years than ever in my 20 odd years of collecting. -
Maybe it will not be long till the undated 2008 20p coins outnumber the dated ones as the royal mint gets on with the job of melting down the old currency and issueing the new!
All jesting aside, my impression is (and I may be wrong), that the 20p and 50p coins will be left in circulation (at this point in time) since they're still being minted in cupronickel. It's only the pre-2011 5p and 10p coins that are going to be weeded out. Obviously the pre-2008 designs are going to be the easiest to spot and they'll vanish first. Although even so I expect it'll take ten years or more before they are seldom seen, I mean how many billions or 1990 5ps or 1992 10p coins are there. Many of which I bet are sat in change bags / piggy banks waiting to be returned to circulation or dumped in at the bank. Maybe they'll get HSBC or similar bank on side to engineer their change depositing machines to automatically separate the cupronickel 5p/10p coins?Coinage of 2020, imagine... 1p & 2p coins only going back to 1992 (rarely any earlier) if they're still in circulation at all, who knows? The 5p & 10p coins only going back to 2011/2012 (rarely earlier), 20p & 50p coins, depends whether they switch composition between now and then. It looks like we'll never get another period where you can regularly pull coins 100 years + out of circulation. The failings of a fiat currency, me thinks.
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why havn't they recalled the copper stuff yet?
What planet have you been living on scott? It's been steel since the early 1990s!
I didn't know that! Not that I should, of course! Really?
Yep, copper plated steel since 1992.
I think he meant, why haven't they started collecting the bronze coins back in, and I did once ask the Royal Mint why they'd minted a whole load of bronze 2p back in c.1999, they weren't forthcoming with an answer. But I still get lots of bronze in change, lots of Machin head coins turn up, I had a whole pile full of them until a few months ago... seems strange how they haven't tried actively hunting them down like the are with the 5p and 10p coins, maybe they are doing it now, since they're going after the cupronickel.
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why havn't they recalled the copper stuff yet?
What planet have you been living on scott? It's been steel since the early 1990s!
I didn't know that! Not that I should, of course! Really?
Yep, copper plated steel since 1992.
Wow, makes me feel sorry for the future generations of collectors! Imagine the questions on post-decimal.com in 50 years time! "How exactly do you store a piece of steel"? "Can I dip it?" "My tuppence has developed a series of nasty orange bubbles, what can I do?"
I already have that concern with my Huth double florin.
Yes, I was just reading about it in a different thread! A lot of money for a 100+ year-old lump of iron (did you ever post images?), selling for significantly more than its silver brethren!
Why did they strike some in iron, when others were struck in silver, etc. seems like a crude material for such an impressive pattern?
Tin farthings and halfpennies from the Charles II, James II and William and Mary come to mind, much harder to find in decent condition without corrosion and the price for the tin coins is higher than the copper, on the whole.
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I first heard about this recovery programme at the end of last year. I must say that I view it with no great surprise and a little disdain at the same time. I mean it's a sensible move and it turns a tidy little profit no doubt (although I like the mention of all the old 5p and 10p coins getting the melting pot treatment too, that would be a great idea, surprised they haven't thought of that one).
However, it really does show the depths the currency has plunged to. First in the 1920s the sterling silver was hoarded up shortly after it was oused by the .500 silver. One article I read from the 1930s said by 1932 there was hardly any pre-1920 silver left to be found (I wish I could relocate that article). Then in 1947 the .500 went out and cupronickel came in. The last vestiges of silver vanishing in the late 60s/70s silver price rises. Then in the early 1990s the coins had to be reduced in size to make sure they wouldn't exceed their face value. Now they've been switched to nickel-plated steel, and the cupro-nickel coins are being removed in advance before they exceed their face value. The question this raises is, what next? How long until the humble 5p falls in value so that even nickel-plated steel starts edging over face? Plastic?
1920-1946 = 26 years (although war helped massively to oust silver in the UK earlier than it did elsewhere).
They could theoretically have lasted to 1967 like other parts of the world, if so then this would have = 47 years.
1947-1992 = 45 years (from 1967 this would be just 25 years to the end of the old 10p the last with pre-decimal equivalent coin to switch)
1992-2011 = 19 years (although some of the 2011s appear to be steel)
The time period between changing compositions getting shorter, or what?
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Continue to buy what I like the look of!
But I'm thinking of resurrecting some kind of 1912 set, Titanic 100th anniversary and all. Would be appropriate!
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I have a brother in the states ( I feel sorry for him ! ) and have considered collecting American coins, mainly because he can get all those silver coins for nothing or less than I would pay, but do we have to pay taxes on them ?, what would be the outcome if a packet was opened by customs here, would we be in the mire or clobbered for tax ?.
Yes customs do open packages and yes they will charge you an import tax on them. Apparently it's random spot checks, but it happens more often than not.
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I've been collecting coins on and off and off and on for about 20 years and I think i've finally come to a realisation in the last few years.
I've tried quite a few areas (always in series rather that concurring); modern shillings, early modern sixpences, brass threepences, specific year sets (1837, 1887, 1912 etc.), Norman pennies, Anglo-Saxon pennies, Roman denarii, Henry VI Annulet Issue denomination set, Tudor mugshot gallery, half guineas, half sovereigns, Washington Quarters, Edward I pennies. etc. The list goes on. Generally what happens is I get going on one collection focus, make some decent progress then feel overwhelmed by too many varieties and types and I get disheartened because I can't complete it quickly (I'm a right here, right now kind of guy, not patient in the slightest) then I get distracted by a new series end up selling all my previous purchases and move to another area, and repeat, losing lots of money along the way.
In the end I find specialising less of a reward and more of a straightjacket, a complete inspiration killer. In all 20 years I've never managed to complete a set (date run or type set), even when one set was only a run of six coins I only managed three of them! Admittedly Anglo-Saxon were too expensive for me anyway and didn't turn up often enough to keep me interested.
So I made a decision in around 2004 to give up all pretense of a set (with the one exception of US Standing Liberty Quarters P-Mint date run because they pretty coins) and now I simply buy coins on eye appeal, if I like the look of it I'll buy it and I don't care if it fits or makes sense in a greater scheme, because my collection, what little there is left after various trades and sales, is now completely haphazard and random.
And you know what I feel much better about it! So I have no real theme, except buying whatever tempts me at that moment in time.
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The last few battles, Iwo Jima and Okinawa particularly, were incomprehensibly bloody. Japan had no regard for its own citizens' lives and planned to turn their whole island into a fortress...
...The United States dropped two atomic bombs to save American lives and speed the end of the war. Prior to using the atomic bomb, Japan was given ultimatums to surrender along with warnings of the dire consequences. The Japanese government ignored the warnings.
And in a nutshell there it is. The bomb was dropped to save lives (military in many cases), and the people on the other end of the bomb were tragically civilians, who were treated as cannon fodder by their own side anyway.
Without the bomb many more people (millions), this includes soldiers and civilians caught in the cross fire, would have died. With the bomb many millions did die.
All in all the situation was an horrific catch 22, screwed if you do, screwed if you don't. Not a decision I would want to have to make, knowing how many lives would be affected.
Whether it was morally right to drop the bomb really depends on who you sympathise with. If you or your relatives were British/US soldiers about to head into what would have amounted to a suicide mission dropping the bomb was the right thing to do. If you lived in Nagasaki or Hiroshima or had relatives there, then dropping it results in nothing more than the mass murder of innocents.
It was the leaders in Japan who were driving the war effort, not necessarily the civilians. And of course the poor unlucky souls who survived the bomb have been disfigured for life, living in constant pain for 40-50 years and knowing all too well that it's only a matter of time before they will probably die of cancer. That bomb was a death sentence for millions either instant or living under the close shadow of death for 70+ years.
As for my own opinion I tend to have most sympathy for the Japanese civilians in those two places, but at the end of the day any bitterness is not going to change what happened, what's done is done.
With regards to the comment above about the possible nuking of Germany if people had been aware of how they treated the Jews. Well I very much doubt that, it should be noted that countries of Europe at that time, including the UK, were not exactly falling over backwards to help the Jews during the war. After the horrors of the War were revealed you'd think attitudes would be much more sympathetic? Well when many surviving displaced Jews wanted to emigrate to British controlled Palestine, the US and UK were more concerned about the mass migration upsetting the resident muslim population of that area because it might affect our oil contracts. Sound familiar?
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Ha gold, gold was nice ten years ago when you could get half sovereigns for £35 each. Those days are long gone i'm afraid! Pity I sold all mine in 2004 really, shot myself in the foot there me thinks!
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I started out on shillings but got fed up of having to get two for every year after 1937!
Sixpences are worth a look, they tend to be cheaper in higher grades than most other silver coins, tends to be fewer varieties in most instances so easier to put together a date set.
Don't overlook farthings either.
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...so where on Earth did they get the lady on the Morgan dollar from?
The designer of the Morgan dollar was actually an Englishman, who studied under one of the Wyons.
Given the Wyons reputation for flattery, I would have hated to meet this lady in real life!
Poor woman!
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...so where on Earth did they get the lady on the Morgan dollar from?
The designer of the Morgan dollar was actually an Englishman, who studied under one of the Wyons.
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I actually rate the Cromwell reverse quite highly. I like the subtle difference in shield shape and the design with its stippled decoration which was a characteristic of Thomas Simon's work. Though for a parliament that had abolished the monarchy less than a decade previously, the reintroduction of a crown above the shield seems a little strange and smacks of hypocrisy. A clear case of "The King is dead. [hopefully people have short memories] Long live the King".
I always thought that too!
Actually moving into the early milled period, well the reverse designs of the coins from 1663-1813 might not be overly artistic and bland, but the obverses more than make up for this. The Charles II, William & Mary and George II Young Head coinages are beautiful. Although I have to admit my collecting bias is here as this is the period I spent several years totally focused in, the sixpences of these years will forever be my favourite British coin series.
Like these two that I used to own:
Those are the only two coins I sold and regretted it, I think i'm going to have to save up and try and find two like them.
WHsmith coin folders - pvc?
in Beginners area
Posted
I'm afraid I know all too well the price of cheap PVC plastic holders and album pages. From when I was about 10 until the age of 16 I used to save my pocket money and buy EF-UNC coins, mostly shillings, but also I assembled a few UNC year sets too. My father, kindly bought me a rather nice folder with album pages to store them in, (unfortunately what he didn't know, and neither did I - they contained PVC). After a few years I noticed the silver coins (particularly the George VI 50% silver) had a weird discoloured corrosion starting and well I lost practically the whole lot. I guess I learned the hard way.