Sylvester

That must be one of the most seldom seen proof sets. Other than 1746 of course.

I was going to say, that 1954 penny would be a killer in any collection. I once tried to collect Brass Threepences, but i was amazed at how expensive the BU ones could get. (High for the series that is, it's nothing in comparison to what i'm on now) You know the rounded corners varities and the 1950 and 1951 specimens, going for £60+ upto £200. And many dealers don't distinguish which variety they are selling, round corners or sharp corners, and the difference is astounding in prices for some dates, 1946 *cough*. Only proofs i see come up regularly are the 1887, 1893, 1902 (where the proofs are sometimes cheaper!) 1911, 1927? was it '27 or '28? 1937, 1953 and everyone's favourite 1970. There are some other years i've forgotten, 1853? and the preceeding coronation years. Forgive me but i've been out of Modern Milled for a year or two.

Ah well Chris i've got my eye on those Charles II Sixpences i saw at that coin shop. Hopefully i'll put something aside for at least one of those. I think i'll break the bank if i try to get all three, two maybe if i can swindle it. If she puts the price too far up!!! She should remember Charles ones are harder to get hold of...especially with such nice toning as those. Oh and i've got a feeling i'm going to end up buying a Gothic Florin. Gorgeous coins, but i can't collect everything. By far my favourite English coin is that florin series, but doing the calculations it proved more achievable to do a sixpence collection. I always wanted something EM, but those florins are calling me. I don't think i could take on two major collections!!! Arrgghhhh. Why did William Wyon design such a beautiful coin? There's temptation everywhere.

Having just seen that now!!! Forget what i said in the post about showing a picture! Not bad at all. On my scale of EM Sixpences, Dark Green = easy to get hold of, Red with star = Near impossible. This weighs in at orange. (with a star). It's the second hardest of the normal (non-proof) George II issue to get. Only being surpassed by the 1728 plain.

Yes how!!! I surprised you can get them at all...very rare you see them. I've never seen one of the less well know proofs for sale! Syl.

Overdates are simple. Basically if too many dies are made in a year, or some dies are still useable, or have plenty of life left in them, then all that happens is instead of making a new die the old one has the last digit of the date overpunched with the current date. So a 1708 die would become a 1709 with the 9 over 8 Similarly 1709 could become 1710with 10 over the 09 bit. Sylvester.

I don't think i could repeat what i would have said...! I think i would have attacked the owner with a pitchfork.

I bet you don't like selling coins to Germans then. I mean you just know they are going to take them home and clean them! There is nothing as depressing (in my opinion) as seeing something like a beautifully blue toned Gothic Crown/Florin after the silvo/brasso has dealt it a blow. Can't say i have seen it, but sadly i can imagine it. I bet there are some morons out there that would clean one of those coins, because afterall bright white is obviously the best by far! Sometimes you could bang their heads together.

Cheers Chris. That was my thought. There is also some slight die marks on the reverse. But the coin is a tad bright. Second one does look cleaned. And recent, it's sad when they do that to them, without the cleaning a coin in such high grade there would be very nice. Oh well

Chris what do you think of this coin. (Cleaned or just a bad die?) Either way it's got problems. [if i can figure out how to get the image on here!] otherwise just follow the link, i'm not very computer literate i'm afraid... http://www.coinpeople.com/forums/album_pag....php?pic_id=301 oh and this... http://www.coinpeople.com/forums/album_pag....php?pic_id=287 Sylvester. P.S I agree with you on the haymarking, it sounds very plausible.

Chris what causes haymarking? (for those that don't know the pitted look on some of the early milled stuff) Is it a die flaw? I think it is, but someone else i'm talking to thinks it's because they've been cleaned with acid. Sylvester.

Chris i've got a dilemma here... I've got 2 sixpences (a 1693 and a 1750) that i'm almost certain have been cleaned at some point. Both are VF+ or better. The 1750 i'll be very surprised if it hasn't! They show all the classic signs the hairlines and everything. BUT... The more of these coins i'm observing i've noticed that quite a few of the EM sixpences have these hairline scratches heading in varying directions. Sometimes more promenant, sometime not as promenant. Sometime they are still there even if a coin has a genuine tone. I've noticed it on the half guineas as well. One of mine shows them very well, but the lustre of the coin appears to be the as struck original lustre, not a cleaned lustre. Therefore what other causes could it be, if not cleaning? Is it because of the high relief of the pre-1816 coins or what?

I knew about the 1682 one! I'll have to keep an eye out for that one. I saw about 4 Charles II Sixpences in a coin shop, all but one had that usual beautiful blue/black toning. All but one were very expensive. I'm hoping to go back in Jan to pick on up. One might have been a 1682? It certainly was about £200+ The 1680 in about F give or take was the other one without the beautiful tone, and was the affordable one at a measly £75 (i thought that was quite cheap considering it's the key date and all), although i must admit my current financial situation, being Christmas and all meant that £75 was no small sum for me, but i did manage to scrape the funds together and bought it. I hope i can find a better one when i have the cash available. (If i have the cash available) Oh and i also saw a King Stephen penny marked up at £350, it was a decent example, you could make out a portrait and you could make out the S in Stiefne, which for this issue is good!

Chris that time machine would come in handy! But on a more serious note... Would you just look up the 1680 sixpence and see if it's down as the rarest of the Charles II stuff? Going on the recent catalogue prices it does seem to be the key date, not by much though. Sylvester.

Thanks Eliza, and Chris does have my snail mail somewhere! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone! Sylvester.

Haven't found it i'm afraid. But i'd be very happy of any of those photocopies regarding either sixpences or Half guineas (that should cut down the sheer amount both of us have to wade through). Just the basics i don't want to use up all your photocopying credits! If you don't mind of course! Sylvester.

Nooooooo! You are seriously trying to make me buy something. Both are well out of my price range. But that Queen Anne one...ou la la! Sylvester.

I'm keeping well out of it! Sylvester...

Just like to say that for the first time ever i've recieved a decent lustrous new(ish) £2 coin in change, a 2003 one too...as they say; 'very noyce' Sylvester.

Make that 1700 years and you might be onto something! Sylvester...

I didn't lie about my age...only 6 years behind you Chris. I have changed many of my political ideas already since being at Uni, incredibly in the opposite direction to what most people expected. Most people come out of Uni with left-wing ideas, except there seems to be more and more of us right-wingers filtering into that equation. I just seem to be heading further right, (to reactionary conservatism) but clearly not towards fascism...since fascists believe in equal rights for whatever ethnic group they happen to be in, but they ignore everyone else. I on the other hand care little for equality, call me 'bourgeoisie' as the Marxists would say, but i like having possessions and lots of silver lying around, would i share it out freely like socialists suggest, even to fellow Britains? No i wouldn't, i have often been likened to Ebeneezer Scrooge and Monty Burns. I think i'm a bit of a capitalist, i just like collecting money, new/old/legal tender/things which haven't been legal tender for years... It's always nice to have more of something than someone else, to know you have a better coin, or you did better in an exam, or the such. I think it's human nature to be that way, and there's not point in trying to change it. That's why communism will never work, humans by nature are greedy and selfish to some degree, (the ones that deny it are plain lying). Just like some people are weak and tend to prefer following orders and know exactly who's in charge, and others are strong and will refuse to take orders. Alpha people and beta people, or so i heard it referred to. With regards to the Labour Party, i think they are going totalitarian, Blair went to war despite the country opposing it. Blair will refuse to hold a referendum because he knows he'll lose. Blair is going against the population here and he knows it. What i think we've got here is a classic case of a facade of 'Democracy' where the people are fooled into believing they've got rights when in actual fact the government is pretty much doing it's own thing, like a dictatorship. The only thing that stops it becoming an overt one is the precarious power balance between the three parties. If the opposition crumbled so there was no opposition, except for the small parties like the Green Party, i don't think Blair would bother holding elections at all...afterall he won't step down for Gorden Brown; despite the fact they made an agreement prior to 1997 to that effect... All constitutional democracies are a lie, the only real type of democracy is a radical democracy of Ancient Greece, but as i stated earlier human greed would quickly corrupt that... So there is no good system. Might as well go to feudalism at least that way we're not kiddig ourselves any more. I also don't think MPs should be paid (except for travel expenses and hotel expenses whilst in session), i think they should do it volunterily, that should weed out the ones that are in it to line their own pockets and stuff whatever the rest of the country thinks/feels. Afterall the monarchs never got paid for what they did, they were expected to live off of their own lands. The Parliaments were unpaid in the 16th century i believe also? I am also totally opposed to Blair stripping the hereditary power from the Lords. I think the Lords should be totally hereditary to counterbalance the totally elected Commons, and things like Thatcher should be kicked out of both. Now there is a woman i didn't like. She ruined the strong industry and thus money making export deals of the country...now we are reduced to buying stuff in, and consequently higher unemployment...bad move letting her in office at all, let alone on three separate occasions... Sylvester. I don't know about you Chris but i've stuck to some of my ideas for the past 10 or so years throughout, school, college and uni...and despite all the left wing influences on me, very few have sunk in...some might have, like total religious toleration (well almost...although i do seem to get angry at Christians a bit for what they did to all the other religions over the years), and total equality of males and females...but that's about it...

I agree with Oli the future is with the US not Europe. I consider myself British, not European, i never have and never will consider myself European. Therefore i am totally against the Euro. But just to give you an idea of my political views, (not on immigration and the likes because this is not the place to discuss it), but my approach to lets say coinage, is if i had been alive when we went decimal i would have been totally against it, and i still am. If i got in power (i hope for everyone else i don't) i would take us straight back to pre-decimal, ban metric (except in science...where it makes far more sense...don't ask there is a logical argument in there somewhere!) and i'd ressurrect the gold and silver standards. But being a reactionary conservative, who has studied so much medieval history, probably too much, i am a bit too pro-monarchist and think that the monarch should have far more say, and should run the country (if it worked in 1499...then why change?)...put it this way the Queen could do a much better job of it than Butcher Blair...and if i had been around in the French Revolution (if i'd been French) i would have supported the absolute monarchy. Nothing like tradition. Basically i'm one of these people that doesn't hate people from other countries but i think each and every country should be proud of what it stands for...us English are just far too laid back. It's about time we took a leaf out of the US's book and had more Union Jacks flying about the place, one in all the school classrooms for a start. And school children should be drilled on the National anthem...afterall none of us know the words! (Not many Frenchmen or Americans could say that). Personally i also think the national anthem should be changed from 'God Save the Queen', to 'Rule Britannia'...Why? well i object to the God bit, not the Queen bit like most people object to. I'm sure i mentionned in a previous thread that i didn't like Charles I, but i would still have supported him because i hated Cromwell somewhat more...the man that banned Christmas/gambling/doing anything on a sunday/not going to church/theatre/fun in general... So that's where i stand...a bit radical but in a reactionary sort of way. Sylvester... You can tell i didn't vote for Mr Blair.

Who's William Brewster? Having just done a google search, William Brewster appears to have had something to do with the Mayflower if it's the same guy as on your coin, and all i can figure out is that 1) He must have been famous, 2) He was born in Nottinghamshire, 3) He's dead... And that's about it... Ah on second thoughts having just checked the search results again...would you believe it there's another William Brewster...(yes he's also dead) follow this link. (i've only glanced at it but it contains the words Brandon, and William Brewster)... I'm still none the wiser i'm afraid... http://www.brandon-heritage.co.uk/miscellaneous.html Sylvester.

That's just killed it Chris... You'd be lucky to get another post now! Sylvester.

Chris... The sixpence arrived in the post today. Thanks alot for it! Pretty nice coin despite all the poor things it's seen, i bet that coin could tell us a thing or two! I now have a stand in 1745L sixpence...thanks again. Sylvester.