Madness' Coin Grading Training Ground

[Madness' Coin Grading Training Ground]

19 hours ago, Madness said:

Notes to Self

Hypothesis 1 - If a coin has evidence of circulation wear and is "lustrous" it will have been dipped

As long as it isn't a weak strike. Do be aware that a coin that has been over-dipped will NOT be lustrous but will be pale, look cleaned, yet have something of a dull appearance.

Hypothesis 2 - If a coin is identified as a scarce variant shortly after being released for circulation it will be quickly absorbed from circulation by collectors.

Hypothesis 3 - If a coin is withdrawn from circulation by collectors shortly after being released for circulation it will be less likely to show wear than one that continued to circulate.

True.

Hypothesis 4 - Coins with scarce variations that require magnification to identify will be more likely to continue to circulate than scarce variants identifiable by the naked eye.  It follows that, in general, the condition of the former will be inferior to that of the latter. 

Also true. Hence the general awareness of rare dates and die marks such as H and KN compared to the very scarce but hard to spot bun penny varieties (for example).

Hypothesis 5 - Coins that were withdrawn from circulation by a collector are more likely to be extant than those that were not.  It follows that coins with scarce variations identifiable by the naked eye will be over-represented and skew any attempt to estimate or determine the number of coins produced by a particular die.  It is likely that coins with scarce variations identifiable under magnification will be somewhat over-represented and influence any attempted to estimate or determine the number of coins produced by a particular die.  

Yes. However price guides are extremely slow to reflect this. It has taken literally decades for the process of reality in relation to what was scarce from circulation before D Day in 1971 to even begin to be adjusted following the Big Melt. A couple of examples : 1946 halfpennies and 1958 sixpences were first classed as 'very scarce in Unc' in the late 60s, and now at long last they are recognised as nothing of the sort.

 

 

[More Pennies]

6 hours ago, secret santa said:

Absolutely no doubling of the queen's head but DEI is doubled together with the I of VICTORIA - so how exactly is this caused ? In the production of a new die ?

Re-use of the die by repunching the worst affected letters / numbers?

[More Pennies]

15 minutes ago, secret santa said:

Actually much of the legend is doubled too.

Interesting - note that the GRA is doubled to the left, whereas the TIA is doubled below. Could a double strike cause that? And what about the portrait - is there any sign of doubling there?

[Contacting Paypal - a frustrating experience]

13 hours ago, Rob said:

Precisely. That's why they say hello, my name's David, or whatever. If they all used wrryyxxxdaa$$$!!!&***%%, I suspect it would default to what (Watt)? With apologies to BF.

K ?

[More Pennies]

2 hours ago, secret santa said:

Many of them have the reworked/overstruck 8 as John says which Bramah recorded as 25c. My own specimen (large date) has this plus the 1 over 1 and all numerals double struck.

 

Not double struck - I would say the whole date has been repunched. We do know from the sheer number of 1858 varieties that dies were used and re-used, most likely  to save costs ahead of a planned conversion to bronze in 1859 (postponed for a year and a half). I have that 'doubled' date but not 1 over 1. The absence of doubling anywhere else I think proves that it was a recut date purely to prolong die use.

[Penny Acquisition of the week]

1 hour ago, Iannich48 said:

Here is the reverse of my coin from earlier. The date and condition of this coin must be quite scarce.

The date is very scarce and rare indeed in that condition. The porousness will certainly have an effect on value but I don't see why it shouldn't carry a value between VF and EF ? Nice one.

[Using acetone to clean coins]

2 hours ago, Guest guest said:

I have used cillit-bang on some of my modern milled coins just to enhance eye appeal. I found it great for removing grime and dirt also in restoring lustre to some of the coins, it does not destroy the coin in anyway and is a scratch free cleaner. Just give it a try on a sixties cupro-nical coin and see for yourself.

I have never used it on pennies or farthings.

Original lustre? That's not possible. It's not a coating after all. Once gone, you can't restore it.

[Keeping coins long term in Royal Mint sealed bags]

3 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

If they were 1986 or 1988 he might. 

I've never quite understood this. Yes, they are COMPARATIVELY scarce, but with mintages of 10m+ and 7m+ they're hardly rare. 

[Keeping coins long term in Royal Mint sealed bags]

9 minutes ago, Sleepy said:

I thought coins used to be issued in paper mint rolls, or is that what the banks subsequently put them in?

Something like this.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/352339297334

Yes, that's a roll issued by banks for use by shops etc. RM 'mint bags' were for much larger sums, for example a £5 bag of pennies or halfpennies. The banks would split the mint bags into smaller quantities and roll them up or put into cash tills. 

In the late 60s mint bags of common coins were issued 'for investment purposes' ... which failed dismally of course!

(That eBay seller is incredibly optimistic if they think they'll get £8 apiece for 1983 £1 coins x 20.)

[Keeping coins long term in Royal Mint sealed bags]

1 hour ago, 1949threepence said:

You're absolutely right, but did they always use plastic bags? There must have been a time when they used paper or some form of sacking, perhaps? 

IIRC in the 60s the RM mint bags were some kind of cloth or sacking (I only know that from pictures, I never had one!)

[Guernsey 1 Double 1830 - Striking error or die flaw?]

To answer the question, you'd have to survey as many of that date as you can, and see if there are any other specimens?

[Assistance with Die Study - 1787 Shillings & Sixpences]

Sixpence:

[1658 Crack]

Ironic that the man who was second only to Henry VIII in defacing beautiful churches, should be so defaced himself.

[CAROLVS III]

Am I right in thinking he doesn't have to be Charles once king? I'm thinking of his grandad who was Albert ("Bertie") and only became George on accession. Shame really - King Albert would have been a fabulous name. One of Charles' names is Arthur, and wouldn't it be great if we had a King Arthur, albeit one who talks TO plants and OF monstrous carbuncles.

[Music to sort coins to]

Hadn't heard either of those. I quite enjoyed Jane's Addiction, especially the more quiet melodic passages. Can't say I like the Smashing Pumpkins - perhaps I'm too old now for grunk, punge, or whatever term applies to the unholy marriage of punk and grunge.

[Ebay's Worst Offerings]

6 hours ago, Ukstu said:

I wasn't implying anything by mentioning him. What i meant is it looks like one of his strikes or a coin he's made (Dave G - Grunal Moneta). 

The ebay sellers the crook! (Whita natal)

Ah - I understand now. (Your original wording was ambiguous!)

[Is this an 1865/3 Half Penny]

The first example is clearly a double strike so I'd discount that. The second is rather faint so I'd not like to say. The third though looks like it could be, especially as there's traces of the down stroke and also something is going on with the loop of the 5 (though that could equally just be damage).

[Madness' Coin Grading Training Ground]

I'd be happy to give it EF myself.

[Is this an 1865/3 Half Penny]

I'm not so sure. The second stroke of the "3" is too sharply angled towards what would be the top stroke?

[Ebay's Worst Offerings]

12 hours ago, Ukstu said:

Looks like one of Dave G,s. His feedback says it all. Crooked as a dogs hind leg! 

Careful. We have a very respected forum member who is "Dave G". Suggest you find another name for this one to avoid confusion?

[First purchase - 1928 Half Crown - Grade?]

11 hours ago, ozjohn said:

With the introduction of Australian coins in 1910 the halfcrown  ceased to be issued  as halfcrowns were not included in the new issues although halfcrowns circulated into the early 1930s but these for the most part would have been the earlier ones. So in answer to your question 1928 etc. halfcrowns were never plentiful in Australia. As for availability of the 1929 halfcrown it was based entirely on my attempt to upgrade the one I had as it seemed difficult at the time to find a top grade example.

Certainly in Britain the 1936 (as usual, following the Abdication) is the most common. 1928 and 1929 are plentiful too, being first two years of essentially the first new reverse since 1902. 1935 I would say next, though not very different from 1931 and 1933 also. 1932 is the third hardest, though quite a bit easier than 1934, and 1930 the hardest. (I'm talking high grades here - none are rare in low grades not even 1930.)

[where to cash in new pence 2p coins from 1971-1983]

I believe the 1971 2p is one of the three most common British coins? The other two being the 1971 1p and 1967 penny.

[Coins and Music from The Year They Were Minted]

1972

 

 

Sorry, I'm afraid the coin is very very boring!

[Help me identify this coin]

I can make out the word COOPERATIVE so I'd suggest it's a Co-op token. But it seems to be reversed?

 

[Help with Photo Editing Software for Die Identification]

7 hours ago, Madness said:

My reason for this post is to ask for help with the photo editing.  I've found a free alternative to Photoshop called "GIMP".  Is anyone familiar enough with this to help me work out how to use it?  Additionally, can anyone see any problems with the method I've proposed?

The good news:

The GIMP is a powerful open-source photo editor - not as powerful as Photoshop but it has a lot to offer.

The bad news:

It doesn't follow the more or less common standards that photo editors employ. It's a steep learning curve, though if you haven't done much or any graphics editing, you won't need to 'unlearn' existing standards first.

https://www.gimp.org/tutorials/