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Everything posted by oldcopper

  1. oldcopper

    1797 Penny

    I would call it as a Soho proof due to the small curved line coming down from the King's ear. This is indicative of one of the KP types but as I haven't got Peck to hand I can't specify which (it may be the one with P1123 in it).
  2. It's still mainly (~70%) bronze though. They did add some bronze penny groups recently.
  3. If anyone can tell the difference between the bun head illustrations of Obv 11 and Obv 12 in the Spink Catalogue, they're doing better than me!
  4. oldcopper

    Limerick Farthing - James II ?

    The normal N variety is much rarer than the reversed N, so that's an even better find.
  5. oldcopper

    Gold proofs

    I think Heritage stick on the estimates when the bidding starts (23rd July)
  6. oldcopper


    I've bought a couple of coins from them - very happy with them.
  7. Here's that "mule" I mentioned: https://www.spink.com/lot/16004000792 The moral of the story is: professional cataloguers don't always know what they're talking about!
  8. For that F6a, they're obviously going on the reflective surface only. With the deterioration of beading and wear on Britannia plus no special sharpness, hopefully the description will get corrected before long. Unless they know something we don't..... A few years ago, Spink sold a described beaded/toothed mule penny (as described and illustrated) for 1600 hammer (if I remember rightly).....except it wasn't, it was a simple F10, with the slightly different toothed borders each side. Oh dear!
  9. The trouble is, what you can see under the verdigris....looks even worse!
  10. oldcopper

    1831 Penny

    In case you're wondering how I know it's got a thin line emanating from either end, I have an example with this die flaw which I can look at under strong magnification!
  11. oldcopper

    1831 Penny

    Sorry, the link doesn't work, but I can copy the picture: it's Lot 2871, auction 7/12/2014. If you can't see this, check out the LC archive.
  12. oldcopper

    1831 Penny

    The strange oval lump above the final colon is a die crack with a thin raised line running from either end of it. Here is an example from London Coins: http://www.londoncoins.co.uk/img.php?a=149&l=2399&f=r&s=l Most .W.W pennies don't have this lump so whether it is from a different die or just the later stage of the main die, I don't know. Detailed comparison would be needed. As to the scarcity of WW versus 1837, Bramah states that out of every 100 Wm IV pennies, 59 are 1831 and 11 are 1837. Then he gives the ratio of 1831's as approx. 4:1 non-WW : WW, (ie giving about 12 WW's out of 59 1831's). This indicates that the WW and 1837 are about the same rarity. I would think that the much great availability of good condition 37's over WW's is probably due to the 37's being kept as mementos as the King died in June 1837.
  13. oldcopper

    1831 Penny

    Yes, the .W.W is much rarer than the 1837. I have hardly ever seen a really superb one - this is definitely one of the better ones.
  14. Has anyone else noticed something strange about Lot 107, the 1853 proof halfpenny, in Spink's recent U.S. Numismatic Collectors' Series 17th April 2018 (Auction 340)? Sadly, I cannot paste the images (as I have the computer savviness of a 4-year-old), but you can see it on Spink's Prices Realised section. Don't think I've ever seen a copper Vic Halfpenny with such obvious missing stops, sort of brings the "proof" description into question as well.
  15. oldcopper

    1853 proof halfpenny

    An interesting anomaly then, if the stops weren't filed off later (doesn't look that way though, clean fields where the stops should be) and I wouldn't have thought three blocked stops would suddenly appear without any intermediate stages being known. I hope the buyer appreciates it. Perhaps we'll see it slabbed at $3K in a couple of weeks at you-know-where. I agree that it's very unlikely to be a proof unless it was some pointless Mint trial (Excuse me, Mr Chief Engraver, I've missed out one and a half colons if that's OK. Yes, no problem!).
  16. oldcopper

    1853 proof halfpenny

    I did enquire of Spink USA (before I noticed the missing stops!) and the coin is reverse upright, so it's not P1540. As we all know, the pennies, pre-1850 especially, suffer from missing stops, but to see it on a halfpenny is definitely unusual. Possibly it's a Bramah variety, I'll check when I get home. I ran through London Coins archive for 1853 halfpennies (currency and proofs) and all those photographed had complete stops.
  17. oldcopper

    1853 proof halfpenny

    Sorry, it has just opened after I submitted the above message. Geronimo!
  18. oldcopper

    1853 proof halfpenny

    https://www.spink.com/lot/340000107 Thanks Rob, though it doesn't seem to want to open for me. Am I doing this right?
  19. Sorry, I should have mentioned both were in NGC slabs...
  20. There's probably not much difference - I've noticed many in PCGS recently, but they are also in NGC. I made the mistake of buying a George IV Irish proof penny and halfpenny nearly three years ago, both with a beautifully blue or blue/green sheen. However, I then discovered the penny (1823) was from the Strickland Neville Rolfe Baldwin's 2010 sale, thanks to Sixbid's modern coin archives (free then now unfortunately a hefty subscription), and back then it was a lustrous matt orange currency. What impressed and worried me was how all the tiny field areas within the design ie harp were all glitteringly brilliant as well as the main fields whereas the raised surfaces were matt, to all intents and purposes a very convincing proof effect. I sold both at a substantial loss, they'd lost their allure for me when I realized. It's a learning curve.....
  21. Rob, it seems to me that in the PCGS secret rulebook, the bluer the coin, the higher the grade, so perhaps MS70's not too wide of the mark! It's ridiculous, their "expert" graders should be smelling a rat about all these iridescent blue coins suddenly appearing out of nowhere. Conveniently, most slabs have no provenances and the grader is anonymous, so it's a perfect system for making a coin untraceable. And of course it's a commercial operation and Atlas are probably good customers. Sword, I wouldn't have thought PCGS do any of this toning themselves (I may be mistaken), but I think a good comparison is to money launderers - they don't do the crime but they facilitate the rewards for it.
  22. Unfortunately I can't agree that the photo is in any way deceptive. The colouration of these coins (there are many more on the website), especially on the proofs, are exactly the fake colouration blue that I have unfortunately had too much experience of. Often a darker glossy blue for the currencies and a more brilliant royal blue for the copper and bronze proofs(interestingly, any lustrous areas appear less affected, still usually orange/red). Here's an interesting example that I mentioned recently to someone via a conversation: check out the Cheshire Collection/Goldberg auction 2005. This is still on the web and can be accessed via Google typing in Goldberg and Cheshire collection. Anyway, Goldberg have a good gush about Lot 3032, the 1853 copper proof halfpenny PF65BN, saying "brilliant mauve and iridescent blue toning" and ending their description with "maybe Queen Victoria herself saved this little darling"! Steady on, old chaps.... Well, I bought that exact coin from Spink Numismatic Circular in late 2001, and guess what...it was a dull orange colour, no trace of the colour it turned into a couple of years later. I sold it to a local dealer a year or so later who then sold it on, still as a dull orange proof. I can tell it's the same coin due to tiny marks and toning patterns being identical, as it was photographed (in black and white) in the original Spink Circular. The Cheshire collection's 1853 proof penny and farthing looked somewhat similar. I presume that once doctored, these coins can never be returned to their original state, so for a company to be buying up a significant number of British and Irish proofs and basically painting them irreversibly, is rather depressing. I wonder if the proverbial will hit the fan in a few years, or whether it will keep being the emperor's new clothes! Having said that, I don't disagree with Jaggy that some coins on the website are very decent and sometimes quite reasonably priced. Like everyone else, sometimes they'll have gems, sometimes turkeys.....It also helps if you can recognise the coins from previous appearances in the trade, then decide accordingly. Bottom line - be careful!
  23. Interesting what Jaggy says about Atlas. I used to be impressed with their coins, until I realised where some of their copper coins come from, how they've changed colour, and their mark-ups in some cases being phenomenal. For instance 1849 penny, sold DNW 12/12/17 £1700, stained on one side but reasonable coin. Now just sold by Atlas at nearly $6K and it's changed to a glossy dark blue colour! Obligingly slabbed of course by PGCS as MS63BN. It's still on the website but perhaps not for much longer. Check it out while you can. Amazingly enough it is the same coin. Also, 1825 proof penny, sold Stacks Bowers 13 January $950 Lot 20358 hammer PF63 PGCS, now "blued up" and on at nearly $6K, good old PGCS again upgraded to PF64+. Distinctive die-flaw and spot on obverse, so easy to recognise. 1805 Irish silver halfpenny, untouched thankfully, now $7,500, $1600 hammer Spink Auction 339, Lot 219 14/1/2018 There are other examples on the website currently. I don't know what other people think, but the combination of huge mark-ups in some cases on the back of chemically enhancing the coin's appearance then getting it re-slabbed and upgraded, is sharp practice in my book.
  24. oldcopper


    I'm always impressed with their 1806 gilt proof penny - "AFDC die flaw obv. slight marks" £275. Check it out. A really bad and unsightly gouge in the Obv. field with associated scrape marks, obviously nothing to do with a "die-flaw". Absolutely shameless description. The rest of the coin is no great shakes either, with some gilt worn away. They have had the coin for many years now though. It may have come from Spink who more accurately described a coin like this at £50 years ago in their Circular.
  25. Rob - I can't speak too much for the hammered coinage as I know very little about that. I can understand more Spink not illustrating some of the types or sub-types you mention as there are literally 100's of civil war issues and that might require a book to itself! My point is that the only major types of milled coins not illustrated are the two I've mentioned, the more important being the 3rd issue as this has new obv and rev, never replicated. Adding to that, the 3rd issue must be one of the most common copper halfpence issues before the bun head era (Peck says £137k issued 1695-1701 1/2d's and 1/4d's which would be circa 100 million coins if split evenly 1/2s and 1/4s!). Every copper collector surely must own one or more, so, Spink, show us a nice one! The first place Spink could save space is on the recent gimmick of including the always "extremely rare" gold or even platinum strikings, some of which must surely be unknown outside museums (like that 1825 referred to earlier), or proofs which may be unknown full stop! It would be interesting to know how much numismatic experience the new editor has.