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PWA 1967

NGC . Help please.

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I have a batch of coins imo all good grades and searching on the internet and looking at previous posts wondered if i would be better to continue with c.g.s.

Recently i aquired quite a few slabbed NGC pennies and will leave them as they are(i do buy the coin) and a couple MS65.

Some however had verd and one a scratch on the coin not the slab,these i left alone.

Do NGC not reject coins with carbon spots/verd ?.

Also i notice if i put the uin on the website some dont come up ,and wondered if i was doing something wrong ?.

Pete.

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I have a batch of coins imo all good grades and searching on the internet and looking at previous posts wondered if i would be better to continue with c.g.s.

Recently i aquired quite a few slabbed NGC pennies and will leave them as they are(i do buy the coin) and a couple MS65.

Some however had verd and one a scratch on the coin not the slab,these i left alone.

Do NGC not reject coins with carbon spots/verd ?.

Also i notice if i put the uin on the website some dont come up ,and wondered if i was doing something wrong ?.

Pete.

Fake slabs maybe???

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Possible i suppose but the coins look spot on and a couple not expensive so doubt it.

pete.

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Another thread has brought this to my attention.

Has anyone got a penny thats got VERD / CORROSION mentioned on an NCG slab ?

 

I have found dozens that have obvious problems on photos but never seen any mentioned on the slab.

 

Fully aware they just grade /give a number and seen a lot of problems that buyers seem happy with

As they dont however reject them wanted to see any faults.

 

Apart from ANACS dont see any grader who gives me confidence in sending pennies ?.

 

A coin that has verd /corrosion and slabbed will get worse it cant improve and should be mentioned....otherwise why send it

 

One coin that has verd/corrosion/carbon spot in fact anything.....please post.... would love to see one.

 

Please post  as not got any confidence in sending any for peace of mind and have seen faults on a lot.

 

Just one does not seem much , but as a betting man you will struggle.

 

Or is it they dont bother and just give them a grade ?.

 

Pete.

 

 

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Spent the last twenty minutes looking at NGC pennies...... yes i need to get out more.

Can anyone find one that is mentioned on the slab as i have just found a few that are live verd ?.

Edited by PWA 1967

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On 12/08/2015 at 11:17 AM, PWA 1967 said:

I have a batch of coins imo all good grades and searching on the internet and looking at previous posts wondered if i would be better to continue with c.g.s.

Recently i aquired quite a few slabbed NGC pennies and will leave them as they are(i do buy the coin) and a couple MS65.

Some however had verd and one a scratch on the coin not the slab,these i left alone.

Do NGC not reject coins with carbon spots/verd ?.

Also i notice if i put the uin on the website some dont come up ,and wondered if i was doing something wrong ?.

Pete.

US TPG companies don't bother about verdigris or carbon spots. That said carbon spots are not taken seriously by CGS either. Carbon spots do not harm the coin they just diminish the eye appeal. Verdigris on the other hand is a problem that can harm the coin and US TPGs will ignore it until recently. Lately PCGS and NGC (if I am not mistaken) have offered the option to conserve coins that they have graded. http://news.coinupdate.com/pcgs-adds-new-and-simpler-services-raises-fees-1733/ This means they now acknowledge verdigris as being a nuisance and will have it removed for a fee. However they state clearly that they will only do this to coins that can be conserved and not to coins that are beyond help. I did speak to NGC as well and they did not seem to think verdigis was a serious problem. I know of many CGS coins that have had verdigris and have still been graded. The 1863 slender 3 that I sold had enough verdigris on it to be classed corroded. Look around the A of Victoria and the N of Penny. http://www.londoncoins.co.uk/?page=Pastresults&auc=126&searchlot=1643&searchtype=2

The fact that you are not able to search by UIN is worrying. Would you kindly send an example please with pictures of the slab and coin if possible and I will investigate it for you by speaking to my contacts in NGC and PCGS.

Edited by Prax
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I was thinking about the slender 3 the other day, is this the highest price paid for any bronze penny? Why did it go so high was it just a case of the bidders on the day having the money? 

In any case, a healthy sale for you Prax so well done, was it a find from circulation or unattributed buy? Or just bought as a slender 3..

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Too many people have asked me about the slender 3 and why I exited the market only to re-enter a few years later. Here's my story between 2003 and 2011. Collecting coins was always a hobby of mine. But only in 2003, after moving to Cardiff, did I take it seriously. I used to buy silver and gold coins in bulk from scrap traders and jewelers only to separate the half decent coins and sell the rest on as scrap. This way I began to build a decent collection by only paying slightly over bullion value for coins. Slowly by 2004 I started to buy non bullion coins as well. Within a year I acquired a few very rare pennies, including an UNC 1903 open 3; and became more interested in pennies. In those days the demand for pennies was stratospheric (I am of the opinion that the market for coins is subdued at the mo). On ebay you had people like C Morgan, Tony C, L Bamford, M Platt, C Davies, G Schindler, F Fiona etc who'd snap anything of interest and the selling price for pennies in auction-houses wwas pretty steep too. If you recall in 2003 a decent sovereign was selling for £45 - 60, yet at the same time a cleaned 1875 H specimen penny from the Adams sale was going for about £960 (https://spink.com/lot-description.aspx?id=3011262). I still retain this coin (The same coin will perhaps sell for around £1500 today but a sov is selling for around £200). So I decided to sell my pennies and invest in silver. By 2009 a mate and I had about 300 kgs in silver and we started a refining business in Birmingham producing 990 silver for big names to put their stamp on. By 2012 the metals market nosedived and I exited the business after taking a 30% cut on my investment. However rather than taking my share as cash, I took just over 90 kgs in pre 1920s silver. Again I sold all the 1911-9 coins and damaged coins for scrap and I still retain over 30 kgs of at least clear date pre 1911 silver, which have not been checked for variants. I have stocked this in an bank vault and I intend to use this for my retirement project. Must be fun sorting through each coin using an ESC book, some of which are from the mid 1600s. Since 2013 I have returned to pennies and have started rebuilding.

Coming to your other question 19k was pretty good but considering the demand at that time I'd say it wasn't unexpected. I had a cash offer of 13k for the slender 3 and 5k for my 1903 open 3. I gave the coin to LCA on the condition that I would take 13k+ (after commission) or not pay the commission if the coin did not sell. The die number 5 penny, which sold a year prior, went for more than the slender 3. The pattern 1933 sold for over 30k during the same time. The market then was very buoyant. In my opinion (adjusted for inflation) collectibles' prices are low at the moment. Property is on the up (but I believe it might have peaked) and this is precisely why I created a tread called markets in the "everything goes" section :)

Edited by Prax
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The new thread is called Markets

Edited by Prax

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Interesting posts Prax and thank you.

The ones i couldnt find months ago were ok just me entering them wrongly :rolleyes:

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A 1903 open 3 in unc :o

Hope you still have a picture Prax.

The one Richard has is quality but never seen one ln that kind of grade.

Like alot of the varieties i am sure they will turn up in high grades.

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Very interesting post, thanks Prax. I've only been collecting for a few years so it was interesting to hear what you've said. 

Would also love to see an UNC open 3 if you do have a picture still. 

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I had posted the pic to this forum before but I can't recall the thread.

Here it is anyway http://i.imgur.com/kZoei6r.jpg

Don't set your expectation too high. UNC by American standards :) Graded ANACS 62 RB. As shown on the image there are scratches on the holder by the date. I will try to re-holder or have it re-graded by PCGS sometime.

Edited by Prax
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May I add my own thanks too, Prax. I find it fascinating to know some of the history of the great coins that come to market. It just adds to the joy of collecting. I remember the slender 3 going way beyond my budget and I never knew that an Unc open 3 was lurking behind the scenes. There are always more wonderful specimens to emerge and excite us all. Thanks again.

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Wow what a coin! Thank you for sharing, as far as I knew Richard's was the best known! :rolleyes:

For the sake of longevity (in case one day the link stops working) and for easy reading, do you mind inserting the photo into the thread? Will happily do it myself too if you're only using your phone or something ;) 

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Ach! That's a beauty!

 

PW - can you post the verd pennies? I think oftentimes the pinpoint type of verd is the result of human spittle flecks (yuck!) or worse yet, sneeze flecks...These  are just as hard to remove once the excrescence is "popped" off as there is basically oxidation of the underlying metal alloy. As others no doubt have, I have seen many otherwise lovely copper/bronze coins spoiled by such.

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Fantastic coin prax and one to keep:)

Fortunately the coins i looked at were not mine Vicky but ones i looked at.

A couple are with dealers and dont think it would be fair on the dealer to bring to everyones attention on an open forum.

What i would suggest is check before you buy as always and now i will double check.

I only send coins to get slabbed to try and ensure they are problem free (not a guarentee but gives me peace of mind) if they dont reject any then

the grade is not always the issue.

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And do you know that I have had coins rejected with the most minuscule of planchet defects, not strike or wear deficiencies as well as other such....

Yes, please do look at the coin itself; I think the holders are pretty good but not impervious to nasty environments of moisture and chemicals.

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I slab pennies and nothing else for reasons i have mentioned before.

If they dont reject any and give just a grade i cant see any benefit  sending them as i dont want to sell any and the grade is not far away from reputable opinion

I cannot believe they say .... we will charge you for conservation so you have a decent coin.

After just reading the NGC site its not something i can get my head round

I only collect copper/bronze pennies..... surely they should say....... Buy another ,the one you have has problems,not we will clean it :o

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More importantly are these coins now being shown as conserved when people are selling them.

I have bought a few graded as rejects really cheaply , but feel more often they are broken out and  resold as being ok.

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40 minutes ago, PWA 1967 said:

More importantly are these coins now being shown as conserved when people are selling them.

I have bought a few graded as rejects really cheaply , but feel more often they are broken out and  resold as being ok.

Some are certainly going to be rejects. It works quite well for hammered in particular as they may or may not reject Saxon for peck marks. It is a world of difference between cleaned and rejected, and wear and tear from circulation. For some reason a light scratch is deemed to be worthy of rejection, yet most coins will get scratched at some point in their working life. If they wanted to be consistent, the TPGs would have to only slab uncirculated mark free coins.

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On 31/01/2016 at 0:34 AM, VickySilver said:

And do you know that I have had coins rejected with the most minuscule of planchet defects, not strike or wear deficiencies as well as other such....

Yes, please do look at the coin itself; I think the holders are pretty good but not impervious to nasty environments of moisture and chemicals.

Could you upload a pic Vicky. That's very harsh in my opinion. Flan (minor) faults are generally ignored in my opinion.

Edited by Prax

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On 30/01/2016 at 9:03 PM, Nordle11 said:

Wow what a coin! Thank you for sharing, as far as I knew Richard's was the best known! :rolleyes:

For the sake of longevity (in case one day the link stops working) and for easy reading, do you mind inserting the photo into the thread? Will happily do it myself too if you're only using your phone or something ;) 

Thanks.

By all means!

kZoei6r.jpg

Edited by Prax
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