George IIII 1823 Original or Token

[lorry123 0]

Hi

I have been given a coin to sell on ebay from a friend. We both know nothing about coins. My auction ends tomorrow but a member has emailed me to to inform me that the coin does not look original and looks like a token coin. Please can anyone let me know how i can tell the difference. I don't know anything about this coin or how to spot if its real or not. I have just listed it as rare as i thought it was a rare coin. What is a token coin? I don't want to sell this coin to a buyer who is not happy.

Help please.

[Sylvester 15]

Have you got a picture? It'd make identification alot easier and quicker.

[Master Jmd 50]

Picture here

hmm...looks a bit on the 'strange' side...

[lorry123 0]

Yes i have.

Will send right away. Appreciate the help seeing this auction ends tomorrow and i dont want my feedback tainted through selling something for a friend , something i know nothing about.

[lorry123 0]

The link to the pic is here.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...me=STRK:MESE:IT

its a very tatty looking coin and i gather from what i have found out tonight that its supposed to be gold/

[Emperor Oli 0]

The portrait looks fairly kosher but the "S" in Georgius is oddly more flattened than the others. I'd say it was a fake, it doesn't look right.

[lorry123 0]

Gee, dunno wot to do. Is it at all collectable and of any value as u can see?

Whoever bids on it can see same as you.

Confused.

[Emperor Oli 0]

No they can't - if they could they certainly wouldn't bid that much. If it is a fake, and is made of gold, it will have some bullion value. These are all ifs though - if it's a fake, if it's gold. I don't have a Spink to hand, but they sometimes flag certain denominations and years where forgeries exist. Someone more experienced needs to look at it.

[Sylvester 15]

Oh i've seen these before. Certainly forgeries, very crude ones too.

The portrait is actually nothing like the real ones in any respect. Looks more like a Roman emperor than George IV!

No idea what they are made of though. It'd be interesting to know.

What i would do is cancel the aution and explain why, your honesty will gain you more credibility. State that you will offer to resell the coin but as a fake. Also explain how you asked for advice on a coin forum hence the cancellation. You'll find people will appreciate your honesty and they'll probably understand.

I find if you sell coins clearly marked as fakes in the auction somewhere (contemporary counterfeit) you'd be surprised, if you were to try and pass them off as real though you'd get negged.

[Emperor Oli 0]

Isn't there a higher denomination George IV like that? I know the portrait is different to the one like I've put belowe but I was sure there are higher denominations with effigies like that. I'll have a quick search

Edit: Looks like I'm barking up the wrong tree but I could've sworn I'd seen that effigy in Spink.

Edit 2: Why is this in ancients :S

Edited November 4, 2004 by Emperor Oli

[Sylvester 15]

A real one looks like this...

http://www.pandaamerica.com/upd_images/182...britain2lbs.jpg

[Emperor Oli 0]

I was madly googling for one like that but couldn't find one, and it's the one I was thinking of. It does look terribly crude and definitely a fake! Oh, silly me

[Sylvester 15]

I've met the odd 1823 £2 coin in person in coin shops so i knew it definately wasn't one of those!

[Sylvester 15]

Why didn't you just look in your Coincraft/Spinks?

[Emperor Oli 0]

That's a point...I don't have a Spink yet my Coincraft is just on a bookshelf two metres away. God I'm stupid tonight

[lorry123 0]

Thanks so much for your reply.

When u say u have seen these before, are they modern forgeries or new forgeries? And if they are old forgeries are they still of any value to a collector?

I don't know wether to end the auction or to add information as to what i have found out tonight and ask bidders to withdraw if they are not happy. I am thinking about adding to my details what i have learnt tonight and contacting the highest bidder incase he doenst read the latest add on to the description.

I have learnt an important lesson tonight. Don't sell things for other people when i know nothing about them.

Certainly impressed with the fast responses here tonight to help me come to a decision.

[Sylvester 15]

I dunno six foot is quite some way...

[lorry123 0]

Cool to read the posts between u guys. Shall i end my auction. I am up to £83 for this thing and really dont know what to do. Is it worth this much as a fake?

I think i will stick to selling baby clothes hehe.

[Sylvester 15]

Thanks so much for your reply.

When u say u have seen these before, are they modern forgeries or new forgeries? And if they are old forgeries are they still of any value to a collector?

I don't know wether to end the auction or to add information as to what i have found out tonight and ask bidders to withdraw if they are not happy. I am thinking about adding to my details what i have learnt tonight and contacting the highest bidder incase he doenst read the latest add on to the description.

I have learnt an important lesson tonight. Don't sell things for other people when i know nothing about them.

Certainly impressed with the fast responses here tonight to help me come to a decision.

That's a good approach you suggest.

I believe that these forgeries are contemporary, that is struck some time near the date on the coin.

I doubt they are modern because a forgery that bad (i once heard a collector term it as "St. George and the Chicken" when i last found one on ebay), anyhow no serious collector would fall for that.

Except Oli on this particular evening. In all fairness though Oli is not a sovereign collector and gold has not been his area. Whereas i used to collect sovereigns some time back before i sold them all, so naturally i've come across most of the 'modern' (1817-1932) gold coins from gold £5 coins down to the half sovereigns.

And i've seen a few fakes like the one you picture being sold on ebay, i think yours is the third one i've come across. I saw one being sold as the real thing, it sold as far as i can tell, but you can bet some poor sod felt a bit of a fool after parting with however much they had done.

[Sylvester 15]

Cool to read the posts between u guys. Shall i end my auction. I am up to £83 for this thing and really dont know what to do. Is it worth this much as a fake?

I think i will stick to selling baby clothes hehe.

No where near £83 in value.

More like a fiver...

Actually i couldn't put a value on it to be honest, it may, just may be an actual gold forgery, but it doesn't look it to me.

Probably brass or gilt lead or something.

[Emperor Oli 0]

I'd say brass. The trouble with telling people its a fake and asking them to retract their bids is that it appears in their feedback things so I'd say they won't be too happy. They can't do anything to you, but I would end the auction instead.

[lorry123 0]

Cheers guys. Gonna end the auction and direct here where i got my advice.

Nice people. Lovely site. Shame i don't collect coins. Would love to say thanks.

lorraine.jordan1@ntlworld.com

x

[tom_jordan91 0]

so if you have ended the bid mum, would i be able to buy it for a few pounds for my collection?

[Chris Perkins 223]

That was almost a year ago!

[tomjordan91 0]

Haha i know, it will be 2 years soon but the coin is still sat there doing nothing! I took it to the market last week and even the guy said he couldnt be sure without his scales about. Who knows how many more years it will sit on the window ledge before anything happens