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I far prefer quality over price.

That is something I had to learn as well.

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I'm not sure what you mean by saying the European people can re-take their continental union.

That can be answered in a simple way...

A human being with a full time job has to be in the position to afford a worthily life. A government has the task to introduce suitable conditions. That is not the case. My government for example does force people into dishonourable working conditions instead. That has to be changed, we have to take action and elect appropiate parties.

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I'm not sure what you mean by saying the European people can re-take their continental union.

That can be answered in a simple way...

A human being with a full time job has to be in the position to afford a worthily life. A government has the task to introduce suitable conditions. That is not the case. My government for example does force people into dishonourable working conditions instead. That has to be changed, we have to take action and elect appropiate parties.

We already have a Santa Claus party in every country. Meanwhile we have to rely on those living in the real world..................

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I'm not sure what you mean by saying the European people can re-take their continental union.

That can be answered in a simple way...

A human being with a full time job has to be in the position to afford a worthily life. A government has the task to introduce suitable conditions. That is not the case. My government for example does force people into dishonourable working conditions instead. That has to be changed, we have to take action and elect appropiate parties.

I'm nor sure i follow that last paragraph Christoph, the forcing people into dishonourable working conditions? As i have been unemployed here in Germany previously i was given 9 months to find a job and be seen to actively seek employment in the chosen field in which i work, they also paid for me to learn basic German for 6 months.

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We already have a Santa Claus party in every country. Meanwhile we have to rely on those living in the real world..................

That has nothing to do with Santa Claus, that has to do with human rights. The same thing is if a CEO of a food enterprise deny the right for clean drinking water...

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I'm not sure what you mean by saying the European people can re-take their continental union.

That can be answered in a simple way...

A human being with a full time job has to be in the position to afford a worthily life. A government has the task to introduce suitable conditions. That is not the case. My government for example does force people into dishonourable working conditions instead. That has to be changed, we have to take action and elect appropiate parties.

I'm nor sure i follow that last paragraph Christoph, the forcing people into dishonourable working conditions? As i have been unemployed here in Germany previously i was given 9 months to find a job and be seen to actively seek employment in the chosen field in which i work, they also paid for me to learn basic German for 6 months.

Please google "Aufstocker" and "Harz 4 Gesetze" :)

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a speech in Bundestag. Unfortunally in German only.

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Harz 4 is for those unemployed longer than 9 months, you should check what the UK unemployed get, it's less than Harz 4

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Harz 4 is for those unemployed longer than 9 months, you should check what the UK unemployed get, it's less than Harz 4

9 months? When i was looking for a new employment it was 12 months. Your argument encourages in my oppinion. There is lots of stress upon working people, in comparison to that people with sufficient income upon investments are preferred. Keep in mind that employees have to work for that as well.

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People with sufficient imcome I find have had sufficient money within a family for many generations, there is still a lot of "old money" swashing around here in Germany and by that I mean from WWII, especially here in Munich.

I enjoy working for my money, or making my money work for me, until Germany takes its 45% :)

Edited by azda

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People with sufficient imcome I find have had sufficient money within a family for many generations, there is still a lot of "old money" swashing around here in Germany and by that I mean from WWII, especially here in Munich.

I enjoy working for my money, or making my money work for me, until Germany takes its 45% :)

I like my job as well and I earn enough money in order to finance a worthily life :)

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Some double standards by our Chancellor

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People with sufficient imcome I find have had sufficient money within a family for many generations, there is still a lot of "old money" swashing around here in Germany and by that I mean from WWII, especially here in Munich.

I enjoy working for my money, or making my money work for me, until Germany takes its 45% :)

I like my job as well and I earn enough money in order to finance a worthily life :)

Ah, a self confessed member of the elusive rich club who need to pay higher taxes to fund the have nots :ph34r:

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Some double standards by our Chancellor

It doesn't show that Osborne benefited from the sale. What it did say was that the family business which owned the old factory was loss making prior to the sale, in which case it would be possible to sell the assets and offset the gains against the ongoing losses in order to mitigate tax. From the company's point of view it would be the ideal time to make the sale.

What struck me more was the 'tax advisor' who tried to make the sale to an offshore company a major concern, whilst at the same time the clip was saying there was no evidence that George Osborne had benefited. If the gripe is trading with foreign countries, then we are all guilty. I've been a net exporter for the past 27 years and have happily sold to anyone who was willing to pay the going rate for the item/work. Least of my concerns was whether those of a certain persuasion would consider the deal to be politically incorrect. That's business which produces taxable profits that ultimately pay the benefits people are complaining about. If I am making a loss for the year, then a profit to roughly balance the books is a good thing.

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Most of the corporates who avoid tax in London also say they don't make money. As a 15% shareholder to which the company he has shares with have made profit and in turn he would gain from Said profit and would be liable for tax

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But it doesn't say that he was a shareholder of the company that bought the property. In fact they specifically say that there was no evidence he had benefited. He had a 15% stake in the Trust fund, which would operate under different tax rules to those for trading companies.

The corporates in London who receive the most complaints have large businesses employing people in this country. To own a property in London when based outside the country does not imply tax evasion as you will be governed by the tax rules of the country where you file accounts.

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People with sufficient imcome I find have had sufficient money within a family for many generations, there is still a lot of "old money" swashing around here in Germany and by that I mean from WWII, especially here in Munich.

I enjoy working for my money, or making my money work for me, until Germany takes its 45% :)

I like my job as well and I earn enough money in order to finance a worthily life :)

Ah, a self confessed member of the elusive rich club who need to pay higher taxes to fund the have nots :ph34r:

????

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People with sufficient imcome I find have had sufficient money within a family for many generations, there is still a lot of "old money" swashing around here in Germany and by that I mean from WWII, especially here in Munich.

I enjoy working for my money, or making my money work for me, until Germany takes its 45% :)

I like my job as well and I earn enough money in order to finance a worthily life :)

Ah, a self confessed member of the elusive rich club who need to pay higher taxes to fund the have nots :ph34r:

????

Alluding to the misconception held by many that the 'rich' have to pay the taxes to fund social benefits rather than 'honest working people'. The reality is that we are all the 'rich' because the system as it stands is fully demanding of all taxpayers.

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The funny thing is like a few countries round the med Cyprus, Greece ,turkey Spain etc there is no supermarket culture in greece.

Last year i went to kos and the thing that really struck me was how expensive the local shops are ie £1.20 bread 60p bog standard baked beans the prices were at least 40% more than the uk and up to 100% more.

I did find a newly opened lidl on the island and that one shop saved me loads.

The locals always seamed to be getting a poor deal and really suffered

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Now it becomes more and more obvious, following the latest news. It is not a fight Europe against Greece. It is a fight between two economic ideologies, even within the government of my home country. Here we have a regnant coalition between conservatives (CDU/CSU) and social-democrates (SPD).

Neoliberalism is unmasked, deregulation at all costs and peoples selective impoverishment has brought us at the edge of the abyss. Enormous profits were privatised and the losses were socialised. The tax payer is covering all this mess. Countries and governments saved most of the doomed financial institutions. Now this debts covered by the public endanger whole countries and societies...

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Irrespective of the rights and wrongs of various ideologies, the **** has hit the fan because debt is too high. If you want to be masters of your own life, you have to be beholden to nobody. It's a rule which politicians choose to ignore as they borrow to fund their pet policies. Greece is where it is because they have simply increased their borrowing to levels where repayment is not possible. It doesn't matter whether the national debt has been spent on public services or disappeared into the pockets of individuals, the amount is still outstanding. Like any other debtor, there is a point where creditors no longer believe they will get their money back and so, correctly, pull the plug.

You should not be so surprised at the attitude of the other Eurozone members. Greece chose to join a cozy little club where everyone signs up to the ideal of a united Europe - except it isn't. Monetary union is not possible without political union, but that would be a step too far for all the constituent nations. As there is an unwillingness on the part of northern European countries to lower efficiency and standards to meet the southern countries, it is left to the latter to raise its game, however unpalatable this may be. It is always so much easier to lower standards than it is to raise them.

Anyway, Greece is merely suffering the same effects as this country did in 1992 when John Major's government tried to track the ERM. An economy that is out of kilter with the rest within a fixed exchange rate system must either get out or adopt the ways of the majority. Either the market forces you out (as with the UK in 1992), or the majority will demand conformity from the outliers (of which Greece is the starkest example within the Eurozone at present). Greece is a very low %age of the Eurozone in terms of GDP (and population). You cannot reasonably expect the mostly strong majority to change their policies to accommodate a weak peripheral area. If the Eurozone is be strong, you have to adopt the ways of the big players. They are looking after the interests of their taxpayers - as they should. There is quite rightly nothing that says other taxpayers must bail out failing member states when there is no central political control.

If Greece has confidence in itself and believes it is viable under existing policies, it should be able to confidently stick two fingers up to the rest of Europe and leave. Unless of course it is addicted to the free handouts that it currently lives on and apparently 'demands' should be maintained.

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A comment by nobel prize winner about that issue: http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/07/12/killing-the-european-project/

If you want to be masters of your own life, you have to be beholden to nobody. It's a rule which politicians choose to ignore as they borrow to fund their pet policies.

That is true, sad but true...

Irrespective of the rights and wrongs of various ideologies [...]

Still it is all about the ideology, it is a matter of enforcing the own oppinion. It is a matter how we choose to live in our country and the European Union.

The last decades the living standard of Western people were cut down dramatically and public services were privatised. Public transportation, drinking water supply, postal service, waste disposal. These are things we depend on and these things can not be given into private hands. Private companies get hands on important, monopoly functions of our society. It is a matter of time to get ripped-off by these companies. So the costs were cut down for the state, but the saved money indeed...

[...] disappeared into the pockets of individuals [...]

That is neoliberal politics, which does harm all of us. You might remember that the British government sold the British gold reserve for a ridiculous low price? Well... neoliberalism tries to erase the real-estate gold from peoples mind....

Here a very good talk given by economist Richard D Wolff, you should take your time and listen:

Edited by ChKy

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The comment by Krugman and the opposition by some to what is seen as German intransigence are only one side of the coin.

Germany has been on a 70 year guilt trip, which given that nobody can be held accountable for the actions of their parents or grandparents is long overdue to stop. Germans rebuilt their country from ruins to be one of the most efficient economies because at the end of WW2 they had nothing apart from a sense of duty and a work ethic second to none. They have effectively funded much of the EU in the interim without demanding a final say as paymaster.

The original members - Benelux, France, Germany and Italy were not too dissimilar, but what has happened is the accession of countries with a much greater diversity in terms of living standards and development, which has already required large transfers of wealth from the rich to the poorer countries. What has not happened is the corresponding necessary improvements in productivity. In a generation, Germany has effectively assimilated the old DDR. Granted there is still higher unemployment in the east than the old west arising from the relatively weaker industrial base, but the job is for the most part completed.

Contrast that with Greece which has been a member since 1981 but has never made an attempt to balance its books, nor to reform services. They fiddled the figures to gain entry to the Euro and now expect the rest of the world to fund their ongoing lifestyle without reform. They have to leave the Euro if they want to be in control of an economy with no intention of balancing the books. No country on this planet is owed a free lunch by any one else - a fact lost on those within the Eurozone who think their debt is something to be ignored and paid for by a handful of richer nations.

In 2000, Germany was the sick man of Europe having taken over the mantle from the UK in the wake of the unexpectedly high bill for integrating the DDR. What did it do? It had a thorough review of benefits, cutting those which overlapped and thus saving the government paying out twice for the same thing. Crucially, they put their own house in order to overcome their own problems.

There is nothing wrong with privatisation per se, but each needs to be argued on its own merits. The important thing is to get value for money for the taxpayer. In the UK, they have completely screwed things up for over a decade with the commitments to PPI schemes, all for the sake of keeping debt off the government books, but equally, other things were very inefficient and essentially an expensive way of employing people. My personal experience when working at the post office after I'd finished university was to be given a warning not to work so hard. I had committed the heinous crime of filling vans faster than the accepted 15/25/45 minutes required depending on size. We need to get away from Holy Cows and recognise that there is a part for both state and private enterprise. There is nothing wrong with doing something to generate profits - something that is acknowledged by all sides and craved by governments who rely on their taxation to partly fund their own profligacy. There is nothing wrong with expecting people to be efficient for the duration of their working day.

British gold reserves were sold at rock bottom prices because we had Gordon the Moron as chancellor. Because the sun shone out of his ****, the country would never need a safety net. Never one to willingly balance the books, his idea of prudence was to spend over 40% more than tax receipts to fund his party's pet projects. Under his impeccable leadership, the country's finances were only allowed the option of being successful. Unsurprisingly it all went tits up. Don't blame me for putting him and the Labour government in power, and please note that I am still making my contribution to paying down the debts incurred by his mismanagement. Yep, surprise, surprise - I'm partly liable for my former government's unwisely accumulated debts just as Greeks are liable for their country's debts. If Greece is broke, fix it. Nobody owes Greece anything just as nobody owes the UK anything. The main difference between our two countries is that we have the flexibility to manage our exchange rate and so affect our economy. Greece gave up that facility on joining the Euro and now must play to the rules demanded by its creditors.

I suspect this argument will go around in circles.

Edited by Rob

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As part of reintrgration of the old East Germany, every citizen in Germany pays an extra tax towards the rebuilding of the East. I think i pay about 15 euros a month. Its time that stopped, how much Do they bloody need.

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