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VickySilver

The Elusive 2002 Jamaica Proof Set Remains So

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I bring this up from time to time, as I have only seen the individual crown on ebay a single time (2002 $25 With the World Junior Track and Field Female Runner). I admit to being a collector of these somewhat hideous "National Hero" series of coins in the minor denominations but have never seen the set or any direct evidence & the Royal Mint and Bank of Jamaica (BoJ) don't seem to want or be able to help. I'd like to see some confirmation of witness, a picture, or best case an actual set for sale.

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I could sell you a 1971 set, but I guess you don't want to know that - and a Trinidad and Tobago, and a Bahamas..

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I'll keep an eye out Vicky throughout my internet travels

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Thanks Azda!

The 1971 sets worth bullion only and found nearly on every street corner Rob! If you were to locate the tougher ones in these Caribbean sets, would be:

Barbados 1984 proof set, complete

1983 mint set

Trinidad 1982-84 proof sets, complete

1981 & 1983 mint sets

Also - Papua New Guinea: 1984 proof set

I actually have all the others but they do take some work and generally can bring well in excess of bullion.

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Still looking for this set - rumoured but not confirmed by either Royal Mint or the Bank of Jamaica. It is my recall that the RM had a collector's bulletein and wonder if it might have been pictured in that at some juncture. On many occasions they are not all that timely and may not even have issued this set (if they ever did) as late as midway or so into 2003...

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Any chance of digging up the annual reports from around that time? I think there's a state library in Australia that has some Royal Mint annual reports available (but only to residents of that state, which excludes me, and you too I assume) - anything similar where you are?

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Yes, good thought there. I have some difficulty getting such. I have an another inquiry out to the Royal Mint submitted through their net site, now out several weeks with a promised response time of one month (yeah, right!).

 

Actually, I was not only trying to find out about this set but also their habit of not being clear as to how many of their sets of this country and year and others as well were actually struck and DELIVERED. In other words, how many were released. I asked this bit because many reported mintages are actually the number authorised, not how many struck or released.

 

Some coins with pointless commemoration like the 1980s Jamaica Tyco Brahe (the ?Danish astronomer) had mintages authorised up to 10,000 or so and yet I very much doubt that many were released. I would guess there were not a lot of fans of the [very ugly] later date Jamaica proof sets with droll National Heroes and dubious commemorative crowns such as the World Junior Track and Field (Athletics) Championships - so that an authorised max mintage of 500 may be very inaccurate as far as the numbers actually released. 

I had some luck in the past by contacting Bank of Jamaica directly, and had gotten from them sets well over 20 years old! I was also able to locate one of the rarities  in the form of a 1999 set, which at first they said they did not have. They could tell me nothing of the 2002 sets, even though I have seen on eBay at least the mentioned crown offered separately.

Edited by VickySilver

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Well, NO RESPONSE from the Royal Mint so no surprise. That was a waste writing them....

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And silly me tried contacting them twice through Facebook with no response. I still think it interesting and that even though people may not care, there may be some true rarities, not just Jamaica struck by the Royal Mint in the mid-80s to mid-90s period. There would be authorised mintages but then, at least at times, many fewer actually struck and released to collectors (key word "and" since they may have struck more than actually released. Unfortunately, so many bits are now struck that nobody may care about a coin with actual release numbers 100 or less.

One example is a more blatant so-called "hockey puck" of Alderney, the 2005 kilo coin (forget the denomination) with authorised 200 mintage & only 45 actually struck. 

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20 hours ago, VickySilver said:

I still think it interesting and that even though people may not care, there may be some true rarities, not just Jamaica struck by the Royal Mint in the mid-80s to mid-90s period.

Agreed - I actually had some luck with the Royal Mint a few years ago and found out there was an authorised mintage of 50,000 for 1983 Cook Islands sets but only maybe a tenth of that actually ended up being produced.

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I don't know why they are so circumspect. The Cayman sets of 1986-88 are about 60% of reported "authorised" mintages 310-320 sets (vs. 500). As I've said some of the Jamaica sets are MUCH scarcer than the authorised mintages would seem to imply. I would say to keep an eye out for all 1996-2002 and myself would tender a very decent offer on the '02.

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Well, no news to report and nothing has shown. I would have to guess even the solo crown has got to be VERY scarce. I hesitate to guess a number, but I would guess less than 50. This is about the number of single proof 1984 Jamaica proof $10 silver; the copper nickel PL version of that coin is probably 10-20 or less.

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Have any gone through sales, and if so, prices? I would have thought a sale which brought a good price would encourage others to come out of the woodwork, assuming that is, they are out there. I can't help. Never seen one.

Edited by Rob

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Absolutely none gone through in sales except the individual crown in proof about two years ago. Never seen this set as I've said but I believe one collector in Jamaica has said he has seen one (but didn't have it) along with the nearly equally "unicorn" of the 1984 FM Specimen Unc. Mint set.

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On 17/10/2017 at 5:26 AM, VickySilver said:

Absolutely none gone through in sales except the individual crown in proof about two years ago. Never seen this set as I've said but I believe one collector in Jamaica has said he has seen one (but didn't have it) along with the nearly equally "unicorn" of the 1984 FM Specimen Unc. Mint set.

Not sure if this is what your looking for but this site lists a MS-20 BU-Specimen set 1984 FM. is that the one? Seems a steal at that price Herse the link

http://www.coinsinternational.com/foreign/OtherForeignCoins.htm

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Yes, that is the '84 set but I don't think that is a valid site and don't think there has been an update for 5/6 years. He had some other very nice sets and coins from around the world but never responded to my inquiry. I question the listing even its original form as there were some mistakes in it. Shame though, because I'd jump on it otherwise.

As one example he has a set of EIGHT sovereigns for 1200 USD!

Edited by VickySilver

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23 minutes ago, VickySilver said:

Yes, that is the '84 set but I don't think that is a valid site and don't think there has been an update for 5/6 years. He had some other very nice sets and coins from around the world but never responded to my inquiry. I question the listing even its original form as there were some mistakes in it. Shame though, because I'd jump on it otherwise.

As one example he has a set of EIGHT sovereigns for 1200 USD!

Sorry I didn't think to check the validity of the site or if it was still active. I have seen lots of sets but not for those 2 years. 1982 FM 1983 FM Even the all nations 1984 FM sets . But  those specimen sets and proof sets unless you collect them most get split up and sold off as singles. The mintages are so small as well which doesn't help. Even the 1982+83 with 1200 or so  sets each you can see them being snapped up like gold dust

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My one and only Jamaican Silver Proof :)

 

Jamaica$25silverproofobverse-tile.jpg

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Nice bit, there - a Royal Mint issue. Available though. The coins of all Nations FM Jamaica includes specimen type unc. coins but only the 50c by recollection & certainly not the larger 5 & 10 dollar coins which are prohibitively rare in unc. and quite scarce in proof.

Another puzzle about the later Royal Mint sets that began in 1985 and went through [presumably] 2002, but leaving out 1986. All but the '85 are listed as "Authorised Mintage 500". They are all fairly scarce, but some much moreso which to me suggests that even if authorised it does not mean that they were STRUCK AND THEN RELEASED in that quantity.

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5 hours ago, VickySilver said:

Nice bit, there - a Royal Mint issue. Available though. The coins of all Nations FM Jamaica includes specimen type unc. coins but only the 50c by recollection & certainly not the larger 5 & 10 dollar coins which are prohibitively rare in unc. and quite scarce in proof.

Another puzzle about the later Royal Mint sets that began in 1985 and went through [presumably] 2002, but leaving out 1986. All but the '85 are listed as "Authorised Mintage 500". They are all fairly scarce, but some much moreso which to me suggests that even if authorised it does not mean that they were STRUCK AND THEN RELEASED in that quantity.

I would very much doubt it. like our mints they allocate a certain amount but they sometimes make far less than they expected because of lack of interest. Which is mildly amusing. Fake news made Benjamin Britten Silver Proof A rarity from obscurity. 5000 were allocated but interest was so low only 1000 ended up being struck. Fake news then made a story up as they do about the "RARE" Modern coins and made a song and dance that the BB 50p was almost like gold dust to find Take your pick £500-£5000 for a coin nobody wanted lol

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Yea, sometimes probably by demand but not so sure they are beyond manipulating "demand". Last year I wanted to get a kilogram silver so-called coin and so bought an Alderney kg with authorised mintage of what I recall was 250 but only 45 struck. But who really cares?

 

In the case of Jamaica, I do though, and want to get the '84 FM entire specimen set and the 2002 proof set someday & don't care if no demand. I got the Belize 1984 specimen uncirculated 8 coin set about one year ago on eBay for the princely sum of 29.95 USD with free postage. Mind you, I followed the series since it got started, and this set was NEVER advertised at issue despite me being on the lookout for it & never saw hide nor hair of it until it magically appeared. Love getting coins like that, rare but affordable with a touch of mystery....

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On 6/30/2015 at 11:48 AM, VickySilver said:

I bring this up from time to time, as I have only seen the individual crown on ebay a single time (2002 $25 With the World Junior Track and Field Female Runner). I admit to being a collector of these somewhat hideous "National Hero" series of coins in the minor denominations but have never seen the set or any direct evidence & the Royal Mint and Bank of Jamaica (BoJ) don't seem to want or be able to help. I'd like to see some confirmation of witness, a picture, or best case an actual set for sale.

Dont know if you saw /or bought this .https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Jamaica-2002-Proof-8-Coin-Set-1c-Silver-25-Dollars-Women-039-s-Hurdles-500-issued-/391949805523?hash=item5b420767d3%3Ag%3A82UAAOSwFSxaPif5&nma=true&si=HzbUnNJvllh6fzDe9ENxSPogZgc%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557         

they do exist .and a bit pricey at that .

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1 minute ago, Unwilling Numismatist said:

Finding that is like spotting the Loch Ness monster :)

 

I was bored after listing the first of 4000 notgeld on ebay. Was surprised to find it , and more surprised by what it sold for .

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Wow, sorry to have missed that as I have ALL of the others since 1969. But I now have word of another, the owner reluctant to sell (ie won't sell it).

Mick, did you buy it? Ooops, I just saw that you asked if I bought it! LOL! No, I wish.

 

Unwilling, thanks for posting that as I hadn't seen the set offered before. The RM and the BoJ are both clowns when it comes to information on this or almost any other set. The former may not even know how many were actually net sold to collectors, the latter doesn't seem to know their A-- from a hole in the ground. They still have on offer since issue the 1992 and 1993 sets with same mintage limits at 45 USD per. The designs are so ugly that only crazy collectors like me even are interested.

As a sidelight, after much pleading to look at stock BoJ was able to find me a 1999 set which is likely equally rare with nobody really caring either.

Edited by VickySilver
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