Die axis rotation

[Nordle11 564]

How common is it to have a penny with a different rotation on obv. and rev.?

I've not seen many but then again I don't actively look for them, but I just picked up this one and the obverse has been rotated around 15-20 degrees compared to the reverse...

[jacinbox 36]

Not uncommon. Anything over 90 degrees is rare however.

I have seen plenty with up to 40 degrees rotation.

[Nordle11 564]

Thanks Jac, do you know if these are spread throughout the reigns or are they confined to the 20th Century?

It's a nice little error to have an example of

[Rob 2,996]

I think it might also be due to wear in the fixing point for the die. If the die isn't firmly clamped in place then the die will wobble in the locating hole which would open out the hole long term. 5 degrees would be easily achieved and presumably more in the longer term. I think this is why you often see the early Soho pieces with very weak legend suggesting the die has been filled. Highly likely given that swarf would be produced where the die cuts the blank, and if combined with rotational displacement you would rapidly fill the incuse areas of the die i.e the legend and the design. This would be exacerbated the further you are from the centre of the die face because the angular movement is proportionally greater the closer you get to the rim.

[jacinbox 36]

I have seen this die rotation (40 degree and over) on early bronze hapennies, 1862 especially.

I have 4 or 5 PCGS slabbed hapennies with this problem. It's not that common on later Vicky pennies or on Edwardian Pennies.

Mid George V pennies also show-up with this error especially the 1920 penny.

[Nordle11 564]

Interesting, thanks both.

Had a quick flick back through some threads and I can see one that was an 1919kn penny with quite a big rotation on the axis, so I guess it wasn't just the London bods that had this issue..

It also ties in with what you said Jac about the mid George V pennies. I have a couple of QEII pennies with a slight rotation but it just seems like more of a slip when struck if anything.

[bhx7 222]

Glad I came across this topic. I have come across a few George V and Elizabeth II coins, especially her Half pennies, with this trait and was going to ask the question.

I have added a couple of photo's. The 1915 is a poor conditioned coin but an example of the "recessed ear" as I collect variants. The 1935 penny is alot better than it looks. Will have to learn how to take a good picture of my coins.

[bhx7 222]

Reverse of 1935

[PWA 1967 1,840]

Hi .

Yes lots of them have slight rotation.

The 1915 is a clear example and they are scarce in high grade,i know as been looking for a good one for a few years.

Well spotted you dont see many and a lot harder to find than the 1916

Pete.

[bhx7 222]

Thanks Pete. Trying to get the best collection I can with pretty much ZERO budget. Here are 2 of my favourite coins bought recently. They also probably cost me the most so far.

[bhx7 222]

I tried to add to my post but it keeps telling me I dont have permission to edit it. Anyway, the 1950 and 51 penny look a lot more natural and are better than they look in the photo. The photo is from the person I bought them from.

[PWA 1967 1,840]

Hi.

The 1950 you can throw in the bin although the 1951 is ok.

PM me and will post you a couple of nice ones to get you started and dont want anything for them.

Dont want to sound harsh and would like to get you focused on the better ones,that 1950 is horrible.

Pete.

[bhx7 222]

Thanks Pete, Have sent you a PM.

[Nordle11 564]

Good man Pete, this is why this is the best forum, for the people.

Agreed with your verdict too. Bhx7, these later dates are where you'll want to get in a high grade first time round, only because you'll find that when you start picking up the more expensive years further down the line you'll find you always want to spend that £40-50 on something different and the 50 and 51 will forever wait to be upgraded.

I say that because I'm pretty sure that my 1950 has had a clean in the past and whenever I have the money to upgrade it I find myself drawn to the earlier dates in an attempt to expand my collection haha. Maybe perhaps that's just me?