Gothic Crown - Grading Opinions Please

[Paulus 1,942]

These are the dealer's pics of a coin I have on approval, it's the standard Undecimo type. I will also try and post some higher res pics.

Opinions on grade and appearance welcome, adthanksvance

[Rob 3,002]

Grade for wear looks quite good, but it looks polished and the digs on the obverse are quite obvious. You can't really say until it is in hand.

[copper123 1,352]

I love the reverse

obverse is less lovable grades Nef

[Coinery 926]

Yes, I'd say a likely clean, and niggling obverse digs! Are you buying it, or looking?

[Paulus 1,942]

I'm looking Stu, it's a gaping hole in my milled silver collection, a gap I've lived with for 7 years or more wondering if I would ever fill it! It would break the budget even though I consider it to be a fair price for the grade, and despite the imperfections it ticks many of the eye appeal boxes.

It's better in hand than those pics, I will take some later in the week.

I still have some confusion regarding regular issue Gothic crowns such as this, are they proofs, or not? Not, according to Spink, but according to some auction and dealer listings I have been researching they seem to be graded as aFDC or FDC sometimes ...

[Rob 3,002]

I think it is more a case of their original intention being specimens or proofs, but being a current denomination then a few circulated. A mintage of only 8000 means they were never intended for circulation, but perhaps not everybody could afford to retain them, or more likely, the original owners having passed them on, their descendants decided to spend them, not appreciating their collectable value relative to the current young heads.

[Paulus 1,942]

I think it is more a case of their original intention being specimens or proofs, but being a current denomination then a few circulated. A mintage of only 8000 means they were never intended for circulation, but perhaps not everybody could afford to retain them, or more likely, the original owners having passed them on, their descendants decided to spend them, not appreciating their collectable value relative to the current young heads.

Aha, that is enlightening Rob, thanks, so perhaps similar in that regard to the G5 Wreath crowns?

[Rob 3,002]

It's just an assumption, but the low mintage means they could never have been a serious issue intended to circulate. I don't know the 1847 YH crown mintage, but I guarantee it will be multiples of 8000.

Maybe the design was put out to test public opinion bearing in mind the plans for the soon to be introduced florin. The use of Gothic script was also in keeping with the artistic sentiment of the time.

[VickySilver 775]

And yet I have seen some that really have not worn and just don't seem "proofy" whilst others have more of a proof appearance - not including those struck to a higher and possibly pure and not sterling silver standard & some with the plain edge. Maybe they were later strikes? They do have more of a currency appearance IMO.

[azda 973]

Ok my Personal take on it would be YIKES. It's one of these coins that i could'nt live with for too Long. The digs and the cleaning would make me walk past it no matter if it was a glaring hole in my collection. For me its no more than a £1000 coin, save your money because you'll want an upgrade sooner rather than later.

The resale value on ebay (which is where you sell many cast offs) would be in my opinion less than you Are about too pay. Save your money a Little longer, it will make more economic sense. Sorry to be so brutal, but it would'nt be for me.

I'm beginning to sound like Rob No more than GVF for me but i'd Love to go lower due to all its Problems

Edited April 29, 2015 by azda

[VickySilver 775]

I agree with that - the hole in the collection filled with a bit you will be looking at and possibly not content with, at least I wouldn't be.

[pokal02 43]

I'd say GVF. That would do me (in fact mine's barely GVF). I try to avoid harshly cleaned milled coins, but will take if there's no (or only much lower grade) alternatives. I guess it comes down to personal preference as to whether you can wait for, or afford, one in the same grade with no problems.

[damian1986 142]

These are realising £1k + juice in fine so I think it's worth more than that -- that said for £2,000 to £2,500 could get a problem free EF+, and I think we were on about this before how popular these are with 8 offered for sale in London Coins December 2014 so one will show up..

http://www.dnw.co.uk/auction-archive/catalogue-archive/lot.php?department=Coins&lot_id=172284

http://www.dnw.co.uk/auction-archive/catalogue-archive/lot.php?department=Coins&lot_id=164499

http://www.londoncoins.co.uk/?page=Pastresults&auc=147&searchlot=2150&searchtype=2

http://www.londoncoins.co.uk/?page=Pastresults&auc=148&searchlot=1718&searchtype=2

[azda 973]

£1k plus juice in Fine or a NEF @ £1450 plus juice according to Damian' first DNW link, i know which i would go for, for a few extra £s

[VickySilver 775]

Well, all personal preference as had been said. I have quite an affinity for Victorian silver as all of you may have guessed but I don't have a Gothic, nor will I. Just too expensive for a non-currency bit IMO. I've left the other young head crowns as well...

[Coinery 926]

Goodness, that's really surprised me to hear you say that, VS!

[Paulus 1,942]

Goodness, that's really surprised me to hear you say that, VS!

Me too!

[ozjohn 552]

With reference to the supplied photo and The Standard Guide to Grading British coins I would judge this coin as EF to AU. However there are significant knocks on the obverse of this coin that detract from the eye appeal. As the coin has possibly seen a little very light circulation the chances of it being a genuine example of this coin is more likely. I guess it comes down to price.

[azda 973]

Really? ^ ^

[ozjohn 552]

Opinion sought opinion given with reasons stated.

[azda 973]

Its no more than a GVF, AU should never be mentioned with this coin, i may have to locate some silver to sell you

[ozjohn 552]

Your opinion and no more as is mine. The only difference is I tried to compare with a known reference something missing in your opinion.

[sound 25]

I think that it's impossible to state whether it has been polished unless seen in the hand with this coin. Gothic crown pics can be very misleading. If it has been polished it should show easily under magnification. Paulus what are the high points of the legends like, any obvious signs of polish there? Always a good give away as you probably know.

Dave I'm fascinated as to why you grade GVF, no more. There does not appear to be much wear at all. Are you grading down because of the blemishes? I think Vicky is pretty near with his assessment.

It has some obvious blemishes, but then the price reflects that.

Mark

Edited April 30, 2015 by sound

[Coinery 926]

Just out of interest, where's it for sale, Paulus?

[sound 25]

Colin Cooke graded near FDC.