1849 "Godless" Florin - Gothic or Not?

[VickySilver 775]

There is currently a bit of an unpleasant conversation cross the Atlantic on the PCGS boards as to whether the 1849 Godless florin should be considered Gothic or not. What say you readers?

[azda 973]

Its godless for a reason because dei gratia was omitted.

[Paulus 1,942]

It doesn't have the year in Roman numerals, but otherwise it's pretty much the same design as the Gothic florins ... in my view it's both Godless and Gothic, can't really see why it wouldn't be!

What is unpleasant about the PCGS conversations VS?

[VickySilver 775]

Well I do rather know the series as you might guess. The lettering post-1851 is Gothic as well, but IMO it is the depiction of Victoria in her garb that is Gothic and makes it so....

[Paulus 1,942]

Well I do rather know the series as you might guess. The lettering post-1851 is Gothic as well, but IMO it is the depiction of Victoria in her garb that is Gothic and makes it so....

Exactly, are some saying that the lettering is the crucial determining factor?

Why is this under 'unlisted varieties' by the way?

[copper123 1,352]

godless is only the 1849 gothic is any florin till 1886

[Rob 3,002]

Oh Dear me.

My mate does a good line in lives. Three for a tenner if anyone wants them.

Why does it matter?! Godless is the 1849, no questions asked. Gothic to me would be the ones with gothic script, but I'm not going to throw the toys out the pram if someone disagrees.

[Coinery 926]

How much will the dig affect the grade? Not a jot! It will affect the value!

[hazelman 44]

Ive always considered it Gothic and need to be convinced otherwise

[Rob 3,002]

Both types use the gothic bust, but I use the two separately to differentiate the types. It doesn't matter what they are called as long as the other person understands - or is that a bit too concilliatory?

[Paulus 1,942]

Both types use the gothic bust, but I use the two separately to differentiate the types. It doesn't matter what they are called as long as the other person understands - or is that a bit too concilliatory?

Not for me, it makes for a handy distinction!

Just wondered what the PCGS mob were getting so hot-under-the-collar about!

[azda 973]

To be honest Paul, who cares, if they want to squabble over a coin that basically won't change its name to suit them, then fine, let them quartel. Its always been a godless florin in the UK, they won't invade because of it

[Paulus 1,942]

Indeed so, I couldn't care less that some of the Yanks have their knickers in a twist about it!

... or should that be 'I could care less', as some Americans inexplicably say!

I don't think they are arguing over the word 'Godless', simply questioning whether the 1849 could also be referred to as 'Gothic' ... but it really matters not!

[scott 129]

the text isn't gothic. so no.

[VickySilver 775]

Yea, pretty much a moot point I suppose. The garb is "Gothic" and also I do remember that a puncheon was used by the Royal Mint for a pattern crown (though of about florin size by memory) in ~1966 and sold in an SNC. They referred to that piece as Gothic.

I think what happens on those other boards is that there are some real blowhards that must be heard, no doubt a bit frustrated in life.

PS - A couple of the 1848 patterns have the Gothic bust depiction but are "Godless" as well.....

Edited April 16, 2015 by VickySilver

[DaveG38 385]

Life's too short!