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Paulus

Let's See Your Toned English Milled Silver!

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The W&M is a beauty.

 

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3 hours ago, Nick said:

Probably because it the scarcer of the two reverses for 1946 English shillings.

yes its the scarcer reverse B on the 1946 English arms shilling :)

 

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On 4 March 2018 at 7:58 PM, Nick said:

Probably because it the scarcer of the two reverses for 1946 English shillings.

Ah. Micro-variety land. I'll pass.

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1807 proof halfpenny.

I suspect this may have originally formed part of a set in gold, silver and copper, with possibly also a bronzed and aluminium example. The rims have been filed on this coin, and are similarly filed on the gold piece. Maybe 10 years ago, I saw a copper proof with filed rims. All this suggests they were done as a one-off on request from one of Taylor's customers. The filed rims aren't restricted to the 1807 either as my Wiener pattern shilling in copper (ESC 1383) also has the rims filed and again is the only example I am aware of. The question is who asked for them? Murdoch? 

c1437 - 1807 Ag proof halfpenny R100 - Copy.jpg

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First, one of a number of patterns struck in conjunction with Victoria's Golden Jubilee in 1887. A sixpence by Spink / Thomas, ESC 1783.

Second, a 1697 E over Y sixpence.

c1715-Thomas-Spink 6d.jpg

c2013 1697 6d E over Y - Copy.jpg

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On 07/03/2018 at 0:20 AM, Rob said:

1807 proof halfpenny.

I suspect this may have originally formed part of a set in gold, silver and copper, with possibly also a bronzed and aluminium example. The rims have been filed on this coin, and are similarly filed on the gold piece. Maybe 10 years ago, I saw a copper proof with filed rims. All this suggests they were done as a one-off on request from one of Taylor's customers. The filed rims aren't restricted to the 1807 either as my Wiener pattern shilling in copper (ESC 1383) also has the rims filed and again is the only example I am aware of. The question is who asked for them? Murdoch? 

c1437 - 1807 Ag proof halfpenny R100 - Copy.jpg

great piece, would you clarify what you mean by filed rims?

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On 3/7/2018 at 1:50 AM, Rob said:

First, one of a number of patterns struck in conjunction with Victoria's Golden Jubilee in 1887. A sixpence by Spink / Thomas, ESC 1783.

c1715-Thomas-Spink 6d.jpg

 

I really like that, although I do find the lion's face a bit disconcerting. Not very leonine, is it? :o

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1 hour ago, rpeddie said:

great piece, would you clarify what you mean by filed rims?

If you look at the raised rim, the surfaces have been neatly filed.

1807 proof Ag halfpenny obverse.jpg

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The same filing marks apply to the 1807 gold proof - see below. Now consensus is that the gold one is unique, and I'm minded to think that the silver one is too because I can't find any references to suggest there are more. Peck recorded the Foster piece, but as that was graded EF and in a bulk lot, the implication is that it was impaired just as this one is, having a couple of scratches behind Britannia on the reverse. Having seen a single filed example of an 1807 in copper, I think it very likely that the three were together at some point. The gold one is definitely ex-Murdoch, and he also had a silver and copper example. My feelings are that these 3 were Murdoch's. The time they were made is likely to be the same, as the obverse die is in the same state on both, with a rust spot above US.

21.JPG

Edited by Rob

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Great,thanks for the information :)

I have seen this property before, didnt realise that it was filing i just assumed it was a variation in striking the coin,

what is still confusing me is it seems some of the dots are completely connected to the rim rather than the rim folding over due to filing. Is it better seen in hand to see the seperations?

 

Edited by rpeddie

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4 minutes ago, rpeddie said:

Great,thanks for the information :)

I have seen this property before, didnt realise that it was filing i just assumed it was a variation in striking the coin,

what is still confusing me is it seems some of the dots are completely connected to the rim rather than the rim folding over due to filing. Is it better seen in hand to see the seperations?

 

The connected dots & rim were a result of Taylor's recutting of the 1806 proof die. See my article in the 2007 BNJ. The rim on the P1365 pattern halfpenny was degrading and showing signs of breaking up, so Taylor reduced the radius of the rim from 1-4 o'clock, filled in the 6 of the date and recut a 7 to make the 1807 proof halfpenny obverse die. There are no known Soho 1807 proof halfpennies. The coin which sparked the investigation is the one listed in the unrecorded varieties section. First page, I think.

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KH4 pattern halfpenny, P-. 

141 - Copy.JPG

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21 minutes ago, Rob said:

And the reverse.

142 - Copy.JPG

Stunning Rob. 👍

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Blimey, is that silver? :blink:

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Just trying to compose a talk on the chronology of the R42 restrike halfpennies to give to the club in 6 weeks time, so as the images were open I thought I would share. :)

 

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4 minutes ago, mrbadexample said:

Blimey, is that silver? :blink:

Yes. Came out of Baldwin's basement a few years ago. :)

Actually, a bit more than a few by now.

 

Edited by Rob
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On 3/7/2018 at 6:50 PM, Rob said:

First, one of a number of patterns struck in conjunction with Victoria's Golden Jubilee in 1887. A sixpence by Spink / Thomas, ESC 1783.

Second, a 1697 E over Y sixpence.

c1715-Thomas-Spink 6d.jpg

I have a similar example though in aluminium and not silver (ESC 3307).

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34 minutes ago, jaggy said:

I have a similar example though in aluminium and not silver (ESC 3307).

Ah. Your's is considerably rarer. Aluminium was almost a precious metal in 1887, only having been made commercially available a couple years previously.

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17 minutes ago, Rob said:

Ah. Your's is considerably rarer. Aluminium was almost a precious metal in 1887, only having been made commercially available a couple years previously.

There is a poster on here who has specialised in 1887 and has, I think, either a complete or almost complete set of the pattern sixpences.

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5 hours ago, jaggy said:

There is a poster on here who has specialised in 1887 and has, I think, either a complete or almost complete set of the pattern sixpences.

Yes he does. A truly dedicated student of the year.

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3 hours ago, Rob said:

Yes he does. A truly dedicated student of the year.

Agreed. He identified mine as a pattern (on the left below - note the position of the '7' and the first 8 struck over a higher 8). A very small variation but typical of the year, which is probably why so many have gone undetected.

1887 6d variety (scan x 2).jpg

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Nothing like as interesting, but nicely toned!  1901_sx_02_cgs_80_uin_15733_ref_01606_01

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A few that have been culled to follow.

05008.jpg

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Quite a pleasing 1849 shilling

01998 - Copy.JPG

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