Dealer's Grading

[Elliot 0]

Why do some Dealers regularly overgrade their coins - this sets a poor example to all and gives some potential buyers the wrong idea on grading which they may perpetuate, certainly if they buy such a coin (at an over-inflated price) they will expect when they come to sell it on to obtain a price relaing to the grade at which they bought it.

A regular offender is R Ingram Coins as can be seen for their listing of an 1888 Double Florin with an inverted 1 for I in Victoria graded as 'Prooflike' with an asking price of £550 - link below.

Caveat emptor !!!!!

[Elliot 0]

Link now attached - I hope :-

http://www.ringramcoins.com/double-florin-10497.html

[Garrett 76]

IMO the obverse is not EF and neither is the reverse although it's a touch better.

[sound 25]

Hi Elliot,

Is you concern about the grade? AUNC, or the use of the term "proof like".

Regards

Mark

[azda 973]

The seller has been spoken about on here for this very reason. I bought a couple of coins from there a while ago and never went back because of the overgrading

[TomGoodheart 373]

Setting aside this particular seller for a minute, I think there are a number of factors at play.

Firstly, my strong suspicion is that we all grade by experience. And that means that if you don't tend to see really good examples regularly then you might overgrade as you've little to compare a 'better than average' example to.

The other thing is grade creep. It isn't difficult to find examples of coins that sold at VF in the 1970s that more recently have been rated gVF, nEF etc. I think perhaps grading was broader back then and buyers relied on their own knowledge. But also price was not quite so tied to small grade differences. You only have to look at the US market where the difference between and MS63 and MS64 can be substantial to see optimism could easily colour peoples assessment of a coin they hope to sell.

There are sellers that I consider to grade conservatively and others that are .. generous. In the end education is still the key IMHO. If you're going to make a purchase, particularly if any decent amount of money is to be involved, it just makes sense to do a bit of research before hand.

As has recently been said on here .. None of us has the ability to save people from themselves Best we can do is educate ourselves and provide advice if asked...

.

Edited February 25, 2015 by TomGoodheart

[VickySilver 775]

Wow, Garrett you are tough. I'm obviously not here to defend the seller, and have had a couple less than desirable transactions with him but IMO this coin in the GEF category as best as I can make out from my laptop image. Let me know if you have some Vicky shillings for sale with your standards! LOL

[Colin88 54]

I didnt think that "Proof" was actually a grade ?

[jacinbox 36]

I wont comment on the silver but bronze seems reasonable for the most part but http://www.ringramcoins.com/coins/pennies/penny-13950.html for AUNC is a bit over the top

[goomolique 3]

The seller has been spoken about on here for this very reason. I bought a couple of coins from there a while ago and never went back because of the overgrading

Same here

[Garrett 76]

Hi Vicky

I was just comparing the image on the screen with the image from "Grading British Coins" on my phone.

I didn't think either side made it to the EF picture in the book, especially the obverse.

Did you grade against the same book ?

cheers Garrett.

[VickySilver 775]

No, just experience over the last 20 years. It looks to my eyes that this coin has a bit of "bagging" as opposed to wear, which I would expect in modest amounts at the high points (esp. Obv). Actually, this coin would probably have been EF in the "Grand Olde Dayes" of Glendining, et al. Based on photo alone, I wouldn't be surprised to see this in an AU58 holder...

[Garrett 76]

No worries you're more experienced in this field than me.

I was just calling it as I saw it.

cheers

Garrett.

[Peter 615]

I bought a shite Bury penny off the seller....never again but it was up with Saltford.

I also got my Anne farthing but it is not a saved seller.

KB coins is another.

I do like to pay EF prices for A/unc+ coins but these I keep these to myself.

One US seller I search every day is my source for 1/4d's and 1/2d's

What ever source he has is fine by me.

[Sword 1,330]

I didn't think it was quite EF either, but my grading experience is decidedly limited. I would like to get a really good unc double florin at some point.

[Coinery 926]

I bought a shite Bury penny off the seller....never again but it was up with Saltford.

I also got my Anne farthing but it is not a saved seller.

KB coins is another.

I do like to pay EF prices for A/unc+ coins but these I keep these to myself.

One US seller I search every day is my source for 1/4d's and 1/2d's

What ever source he has is fine by me.

I thought Saltford was one of your recommended regulars? It only stands out for me as I lived for a number of years in Bath, and passed through Salford on my way to work in Bristol? Never met or dealt with them myself I must add!

[Peter 615]

I bought a Bury 1d which went straight back but a better one was sent at the same money.

The 1d was the early poor condition type of Edward 1....but this was the poorest of poor.

Anything nice seems well over priced.

[Peter 615]

I did get a fine silver issue shilling and a Mildenham ? shilling from the seller.

I really do prefer to see the coins in hand.

My fine silver shilling had graffiti but was OK ...couldn't send it back.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Peter

[pokal02 43]

Have to agree with KB Coins unfortunately, see their two Oxford crowns graded GVF & NEF which I'd grade GF and NVF, They had a 1732 Proof crown (now gone) described as GVF/NEF which was barely F. Saltford aren't as bad - their NVF's I normally go GF and their GF's I'd say are F (or even AF - see their 1684 crown). I guess anything 1/2 grade or less could be described as a difference of opinion rather than overgrading. Then we have the question of American dealers - I know their grades are more lenient, but by how much? I always thought it was about 1/2 a grade, ie a US VF was our NVF and their NVF was our F. Some seem a lot worse even than this though?

[Peter 615]

Have to agree with KB Coins unfortunately, see their two Oxford crowns graded GVF & NEF which I'd grade GF and NVF, They had a 1732 Proof crown (now gone) described as GVF/NEF which was barely F. Saltford aren't as bad - their NVF's I normally go GF and their GF's I'd say are F (or even AF - see their 1684 crown). I guess anything 1/2 grade or less could be described as a difference of opinion rather than overgrading. Then we have the question of American dealers - I know their grades are more lenient, but by how much? I always thought it was about 1/2 a grade, ie a US VF was our NVF and their NVF was our F. Some seem a lot worse even than this though?

I have a US dealer who grades at the UK market.

I buy at his grades before pictures.....best dealer/buyer he knows what I like.

My Edward V11 1/2d's are the dogs ocks.