Wreath Crown of dubious origin

[Mark 4]

Hello everyone!

If I may, I'd like to use my inaugural posting on this forum to make an inquiry as to the authenticity of this 1933 Wreath Crown I picked up from Ebay some months ago. (seller was asking $10 for it, so I figured I couldn't go wrong)

Now normally, the staining and overall color present would be a red flag to me, but with that 50% alloy it seems like anything goes, so I'll reserve judgement on that front. The weight seems to check out fine, but I am otherwise at a loss for informational resources to cross-reference with. Input is much appreciated!

[Prax 80]

At £ 10 you wont get a wreath crown. That said even fakes cost more. Did you try using those silver testing magnets to confirm if the coin is silver? I would start there.

I am not into silver so can't say much but there are others on this forum that will clarify your doubts

[Garrett 76]

Does it have a reeded edge ?

I don't know enough about these to say either way. You could always try slabbing it to find out for sure....

cheers

Garrett.

[azda 973]

At $10 you could throw it in the bin

[VickySilver 775]

Bit hard to see surfaces in your photos but would suggest the time-honoured acetone bath....Maybe even ammonia 1:2 solution if that doesn't do anything. I have occ. seen these Wreaths with some odd toning with that "pot-metal" silver composition.

From arm's length, other than the odd oxidation, it doesn't look too bad and I can not right away put it in the faker category.

edit: "questionable origin" does not impugn the quality of the product, only its source.

Edited February 11, 2015 by VickySilver

[azda 973]

If dubious origin mean china or Hong Kong then see my above post

[Coinery 926]

John Stephenson always seemed to have his finger on the pulse with modern silver, I'd definitely buzz him about it if it's a possible genuine? I'm guessing you wouldn't be flagging it up here unless you had an 'odd' feeling about it?

VS and Nick are also pretty on the ball with silver! Peck also has a pretty big resource and insight into G5!

Keep us posted...I'm always interested in the material that sits on the fake fringe!

[azda 973]

From "a dubious origin" i won't hold your breath Stewie, no reply as to where it originated as yet

[Coinery 926]

From "a dubious origin" i won't hold your breath Stewie, no reply as to where it originated as yet

Absolutely, totally agree...will be interesting to look at it, though, even if the details only flag it for a fake?

To be fair, where ARE the details for these coins? We revisit them time and time again, but still haven't arrived at a place beyond 'send it to CGS,' and/or a couple of random posts on here, or thereabouts, which is crazy, especially when we batter CGS so badly!

Why are we, as a cohesive group of intelligent numismatists, saying 'what do "they" know about coins and grading,' and yet send off all our 'scary' coins to them for endorsement?

Are we saying, with that above statement, that we need CGS to tell us what is a Northumberland Shilling, for example, or can we say it for ourselves...as a pretty serious body of collectors?

[Nick 325]

There is nothing in the picture that screams fake, although the image is not particularly illuminating. If it is fake, it's quite a good one and a higher grade coin than usual that has been cloned. The clincher is probably the purchase price, which sounds as if it was a BIN costing $10 which tells you all you need to know.

[Bronze & Copper Collector 401]

That old tenet still applies....

"If it seems too good to be true, it probably is....."

[azda 973]

Someone posted one a year or 2 back where the REV flower design was slightly disconnected at a point. Can't remember who it was now

[Nick 325]

Someone posted one a year or 2 back where the REV flower design was slightly disconnected at a point. Can't remember who it was now

It wasn't a 1933 though, it was 1932. Thread is here.

[Mark 4]

A little more information: it is not magnetic so far as I can tell with the small magnet on my desk. Later today I will test with the large magnet I have in the garage.

Edge is reeded. To my (admittedly untrained) eyes. there appears nothing unusual or irregular about the reeding.

The seller was from the US and had a few other coins for sale, (a few junk halfpence along with a few various low-end American coins, if I recall correctly), but most of his other listings were for non-coin related items. (I think the listing actually described it as a 1935 Crown). Was obviously not a coin guy. If it was from China or HK I would have moved on without a second thought.

While I am assuming counterfeit until I can find proof otherwise, I'm not going to write it off based alone on the circumstances of purchase.

I will attempt to get some more detailed photographs posted when I get home.

[Nick 325]

A little more information: it is not magnetic so far as I can tell with the small magnet on my desk. Later today I will test with the large magnet I have in the garage.

To do a silver test with a magnet you'll need a rare-earth magnet, such as one made from neodymium. Standard type magnets aren't strong enough.

[azda 973]

what is the weight exactly, you said it checked out fine but without giving its weight

[Mark 4]

Well, I say the weight "seems" to check out fine because my el-cheapo postal scale doesn't measure to the decimal place.

Proper weight for these pieces is 28.28g, and my scale measures the coin as 28g.

So while I can't be 100% sure the weight is good, the information I have doesn't point to it being bad.

[VickySilver 775]

As Nick seems to imply, don't be too quick to condemn it - and from the sounds of it, I don't think you are - I like to play detective and in this case assume for argument authentic and then disprove it. IMO, this can not be done from this photo as the surfaces a bit hard to make out details like a high def might. 0.500 fine silver can have some downright ugly toning on occasion, especially if storing not optimal. Please try an acetone treatment at least and have another go at pictures if possible. You may still have a steal, but have to reserve judgement. (the 28gm. +/- bit is a good start).

Wouldn't bother with the magnet as was stated above.

Edited February 11, 2015 by VickySilver

[Coinery 926]

Can we see some photos of the edge?

[azda 973]

ok, i will also reserve judgement on this now, but from you initial "dubious origins" post amd price paid my initial reaction was China or Hong Kong.

The patchy toning is also something that has been seen recently in Chinese originated coins, most notably a Victoria florin quite recently. Sometimes a bargain can be found but i'd be surprised if this is actually one of them.

Better pictures or a scan of the coin and uploaded into photobucket and the IMG url pasted into a post can hopefully help with the surface of the coin.

[Garrett 76]

_{amyway Mark}

_{Welcme to the forum !}

_{Thanks for posting, you have us all intrigued in your coin/story.}

_{Hope you stay around., and good luck with the Crown}

_{cheers Garrett.}

[Peter 615]

Alibaba express has a nice selection of wreath crowns which sell well on ebay.

$10 is OK I think you can buy them for $2 or 3 bucks.

[azda 973]

Can you throw up a link Peter to a 1933 wreath?

[Peter 615]

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/great-britain-1933-wreath-crown-copy-coins/1905369754.html

These have been selling like hot cakes on ebay

[Peter 615]

Buyers are too stupid to research their coins and deserve to get ripped.

If you have half a brain you would steer clear of a seller that doesn't deal in coins.....or a stamp dealer with 1864 die 4 florins or a prat in Cornwall.