CGS 1912 Florin UIN 0032905

[ozjohn 552]

I saw this coin on Ebay item # 131412577044 which is a CGS certified 1912 florin. The seller provided photos taken by himself and the CGS provided photos UIN 0032905. When I looked at the photos I noticed that a scratch on the upper head part of the King's head shown on the seller's photo as just about absent from the CGS photo with only a smudge showing. Maybe it is just a trick of lighting between the two photos but I thought damage such as this should show up the same in both pictures. Other small edge knocks indicate that it is the same coin in both photos.

This does little the enhance CGS as they are both graders and dealers in coins.

[Nick 325]

Link. An excellent illustration of why CGS need to improve their photography. The seller's photos are vastly superior and show the coin 'warts and all' which is what CGS should be doing, given that it is their business.

[Coinery 926]

I wonder who that was slabbed for? If the seller's obverse image (the reverse isn't coming up on my phone) was put on here for CGS guesses, I think anyone suggesting CGS 75 would be laughed off the forum, if only for the rim and bust scratch!

[ozjohn 552]

Hi Nick,

You are right. It has to be said that the coin for sale is a very nice coin but it also demonstrates that the concept of FDC does not exist other than for proof coins that have been put away from the day they were issued. Normal issue coins in EF UNC condition suffer from many problems starting from the day they were minted.

[Paulus 1,942]

I wonder who that was slabbed for? If the seller's obverse image (the reverse isn't coming up on my phone) was put on here for CGS guesses, I think anyone suggesting CGS 75 would be laughed off the forum, if only for the rim and bust scratch!

I'm surprised they graded it, I've had coins rejected with less 'damage' that that ...

[Nick 325]

Those florins of 1911-1919 are notoriously weak and slightly unpatriotic - "Two and a half lions on my shield".

[azda 973]

Hi Nick,

You are right. It has to be said that the coin for sale is a very nice coin but it also demonstrates that the concept of FDC does not exist other than for proof coins that have been put away from the day they were issued. Normal issue coins in EF UNC condition suffer from many problems starting from the day they were minted.

Sorry, but i Would never Have said its a very nice coin, i'd be moving right along personally

[azda 973]

I wonder who that was slabbed for? If the seller's obverse image (the reverse isn't coming up on my phone) was put on here for CGS guesses, I think anyone suggesting CGS 75 would be laughed off the forum, if only for the rim and bust scratch!

I'm surprised they graded it, I've had coins rejected with less 'damage' that that ...

Hence too many inconsistancies Paul

[ozjohn 552]

Yes but are CGS acting as a coin grading service or a sales service for their retail outlet?

[azda 973]

Yes but are CGS acting as a coin grading service or a sales service for their retail outlet?

Yes and they're also trying to influence prices through their grades and auctions which i don't find appealing nor do i find this coin appealing regardless of grade. They're influencing by saying a coin is a certain grade because some people buy by graded holder number. Even IF this coin was £20 i still would'nt be interested, just my opinion

Edited January 26, 2015 by azda

[VickySilver 775]

Unslabbed, though a slightly scarcer date, this coin would languish in a dealer's tray. Much nicer available strike wise and wear/damage, but even these don't draw a lot of interest. Perhaps CGS are trying to drum up a near non-existent market.

[PWA 1967 1,841]

personally i think its sellers trying to bump up the price and coins get sent to c.g.s. by sellers looking to make a few quid.There is nothing wrong with that but i can assure you it wont always work.I do feel they grade independently and some you win and some you lose .We must remember in my opinion shill bidding happens and some people buy a number.The majority of my coins i have had slabbed i bought raw and although was dissapointed of a few being rejected that was there opinion and what i paid for and allowed me to send the majority back.I have over a hundred pennies slabbed and although probably cost me a couple of grand i am happy

You dont have to send or buy them.

Pete

[jacinbox 36]

CGS is a joke. Send your coins to grade and you will find them seriously under-rated. At the same time buy off their inventory and you would be scratching your head about how this coin got such a high grade. On their no verdigiris policy; look at the 1882 penny that recently sold on ebay. How easily their standards change based on the coin’s rarity or its owner is a joke. Avoid CGS like the plague a) they don’t stick to their 90 day window, their slabs are very low grade and show cracks within 2 years and c) they will not give your coin a grade it deserves. If that’s not enough try selling a CGS graded coin at one of the bigger American auction houses and they will spit at you

[PWA 1967 1,841]

Thanks.

Now please sit down and chill out

[goomolique 3]

[MRD 6]

The same seller has a 1925 Half Crown also slabbed at CGS75, Check out the difference in the strike, i cant see how both end up as 75s.

[ozjohn 552]

Again the "bag marks" seem worse on the photos supplied by the seller whereas the CGS photo seems to be less marked with the mark on the neck just behind the adam's apple apparent in both photos indicating they are the same coin.

I can see no reason for a grader to enhance the coin if they are grading the coin for a customer unless they have want to sell it on via their own retail outlet. Again in this case the seller's photos are more revealing than the grading company.

As far as the strike is concerned 1920s KGV coins used a shallow cut effigy of the king whereas the 1912 effigy of KGV was the deeper cut version that carried more detail.

[VickySilver 775]

Wow, 900 for that '25. Not this collector! There are much nicer 1912s about as I've said & the grade is perhaps "fair for wear" even with the dearth of aesthetics...

[jacinbox 36]

Yes but are CGS acting as a coin grading service or a sales service for their retail outlet?

Could not have said it any better

[Paulus 1,942]

Yes but are CGS acting as a coin grading service or a sales service for their retail outlet?

Could not have said it any better

It would be interesting to know if this coin has been sold through London Coins, or one of their auctions

[Peter 615]

I mentioned this a few years ago that a 1865 1/4d with a HUGE edge knock went through London Coins auction and ended up in a CGS slab which covered this up.

This sort of thing doesn't go unnoticed by the pre decimal police.

I've bought a few slabs from CC because I trust them.

An edge knock would be a big NO.

My MG had a scratch (daughter wheel barrow mix) she denied it although my other daughter saw her doing it £300 later and she confessed.

I've had cups of tea on tap and my hair combed.