George III Copper Gunports

[Paulus 1,942]

I am an English milled silver type collector in the main, but dabble in other stuff ... very broad 'types' of gold, copper and bronze for example.

Out of interest, what is meant by the various varieties for this type, to do with gun ports?? Spink seem to randomly choose a type to list varieties for! Is it all about that small ship at 8 o'clock?!

This is my example of a George III 1799 halfpenny, and does not need upgrading for the foreseeable ... apparently it has 6 raised gunports, can anyone explain what that means exactly?

[azda 973]

The ship you refer to has gunports, they are'nt really visible with the naked eye, but a hi res image and enlarging your picture will show these.

[declanwmagee 122]

Get close to them with a loupe, don't try and count them, just check whether they're incuse or raised!

[Rob 3,002]

You need a copy of Peck for Christmas - an invaluable reference.

5 incuse, 6 raised, 9 raised, Plain hull, Raised line on hull cover P1248-52. There is also a 7 raised gunports, not seen by Peck. Nicholson had one, I have one and there will be others. The raised varieties could obviously have been put on the die by the engraver punching a row of holes, but the incuse gunports would have to be raised on the die and must therefore have been on the ship punch. There were many ship punches, with Peck noting at least 50 varieties of ship.

[Colin G. 147]

Makes you wonder why so many varieties on such a small feature, why not as many varieties on other features such as the trident, waves or shield? Possible attempt at die identification or just a part of the design that ended up getting reworked every time a working die was produced?

[Rob 3,002]

I'm not sure about the die id argument. You could say it holds up because there are a number of varieties, but in terms of the numbers produced, the number of discrete varieties is minimal. The ships can only be used as an identifier if there is some sequencing of a feature which doesn't appear to be the case.

[PWA 1967 1,841]

Is that a die clash ,and if so were they common on half pennies?Lovely coin anyway.

[Colin G. 147]

Just seems bizarre to have so many tweaks on a feature that small. I suppose when they were checking the fine detail on a matrix/working die, it would be the area most prone to fill with the detail involved, so perhaps that is the explanation.

[Coinery 926]

it would be the area most prone to fill with the detail involved, so perhaps that is the explanation.

That would be my first thought, that they probably had to 'dig' a fair old bit of metal from the ships each time they used them?

[Rob 3,002]

Some of them have gunports going out into the sea in front of the ship, so must be done after the ship was punched in.

Also, 1799 proofs have different gunports or ship designs to the currency pieces in most instances, e.g. KH10 - flush deck and 6 relief, KH11 - poop and 5 relief, KH13 - poop and no gunports, KH14 - poop and 6 relief, KH16 to 19 & 25 - raised line, KH20 & 21 - poop and 3 incuse, KH22 & 23 - 3 or 4 relief. Make of it what you will.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Rob

[Coinery 926]

I suppose a poop deck could be a corrected flush deck? I don't know, I'm meek on the issue, knowing only the surface info. on it all! Just tossing ideas into the pot. On account of such variation, it doesn't seem inconceivable that a lot of the variations are based on repairs?

[Peter 615]

[Peter 615]

My little beauty

[Paulus 1,942]

A photo from Peter!!!!!!!!

How many poop decks have you got Peter?

(stands by for a response laced with double entendre)

[Coinery 926]

A photo from Peter!!!!!!!!

How many poop decks have you got Peter?

(stands by for a response laced with double entendre)

Block up your ears!

[PWA 1967 1,841]

Thats a really nice one

[Peter 615]

That is what the girls say

[Peter 615]

http://www.omnicoin.com/viewcoin/975916

Another for you Paulus

Aquired from NRP.

Most of my coins are from coin fairs.

[Peter 615]

http://www.omnicoin.com/viewcoin/939446

There are plenty more Paulus

[Paulus 1,942]

You should share your pics more often Peter!

Did you find those farthings yourself?

[Peter 615]

Living in Suffolk we have great history.

There is the site of a Roman fort less than 400m away.

There is a rumor of soldiers marching through the village.

The coins were found by a good mate in the Brecklands. 10 miles away.FOC

[azda 973]

Here are the gunports in more detail. I bought this one for William about 18 months ago and despite it belonging to him its also one of my favourites. I'll add the actual coin picture shortly

[azda 973]

And this is the coin in question

[Peckris 579]

And this is the coin in question

...that reminds me - must get the turkey and sausages...

[azda 973]

Lost me completely Peck