More Pennies

[Paulus 1,942]

Well two grading companies have looked and they know a lot more than a beginner like me.

I probably get fussy when i send them to CGS as dont want to spend £25 to get them rejected.

Nice coin , will you be selling it ?.

I bought it to keep as my G IV penny example, but if I don't like it in hand when it arrives, then yes! Bit of a minefield this collecting game at times ...

[PWA 1967 1,840]

Just had a look and for £100 well bought and a good buy.

Hat off Paul.

[davidrj 194]

Just taken a £10 punt on this 1863 - wishful thinking, I know. But the 3 looks odd, not normal but not the same as the open 3 I have. - probably a bog standard one when it arrives

David

[azda 973]

Just taken a £10 punt on this 1863 - wishful thinking, I know. But the 3 looks odd, not normal but not the same as the open 3 I have. - probably a bog standard one when it arrives

David

Here's an open 3 for you David 401036500352

[Nordle11 564]

David, I was also watching that and forgot to bid haha. Good luck, post your findings!

[Nordle11 564]

Just taken a £10 punt on this 1863 - wishful thinking, I know. But the 3 looks odd, not normal but not the same as the open 3 I have. - probably a bog standard one when it arrives

David

Here's an open 3 for you David 401036500352

Yeah that Basseyhounds has a nice little collection of rarities going right now. Are they a member on here?

[azda 973]

Is it me or is this NOT a high tide?

321939581443

Same seller has an 1841 halfpenny saying its FDC but it's graded at CGS85 which is choice UNC according to the CGS list of grading numbers. FDC is proof but it doesn't look proof to me

Same seller again has an 1893 penny graded from CGS and does look like 3/2 but how CGS would have missed that I've no idea

Edited December 7, 2015 by azda

[Nordle11 564]

It does look a little low but I think it's OK. I don't argue with any grading though or we'd be here all day, I'll take your word on the FDC.

Also I was looking at the 3/2 yesterday and yeah it's definitely there although it is weird they missed it. They even noted that there's 'no small spike on the underside of the center bar', so they were looking for it too.

Maybe that'll hurt the price? Who knows.

[azda 973]

[azda 973]

It does look a little low but I think it's OK. I don't argue with any grading though or we'd be here all day, I'll take your word on the FDC.

Also I was looking at the 3/2 yesterday and yeah it's definitely there although it is weird they missed it. They even noted that there's 'no small spike on the underside of the center bar', so they were looking for it too.

Maybe that'll hurt the price? Who knows.

I was always under the impression that the tide on the 1897 had to be above the folds on britannias robe for it to be a high tide?

[Nordle11 564]

Yeah for sure, but sometimes the drapery isn't fully struck and it's a little difficult to tell. Although I've compared a couple now and you've got me questioning it. You can't see the image on the NGC site using the reference, but the grades match.

I've bought expensive things from this guy before though and he's always been good to deal with, albeit a little strange. Maybe a fault on the grader's part? Like you've said the 3/2 was unattributed (although that one was CGS not NGC).

[azda 973]

Yeah for sure, but sometimes the drapery isn't fully struck and it's a little difficult to tell. Although I've compared a couple now and you've got me questioning it. You can't see the image on the NGC site using the reference, but the grades match.

I've bought expensive things from this guy before though and he's always been good to deal with, albeit a little strange. Maybe a fault on the grader's part? Like you've said the 3/2 was unattributed (although that one was CGS not NGC).

The reason I question is that American TPGs do make mistakes on British Pennies, the seller won't argue because the label states that it is what it is and shouldn't be argued with if it comes from a large TPG.

I once corrected Notheast numismatics who had a slabbed 1895 2mm, but it wasn't and I pointed it out to them, they eventually agreed with me and said they'd contact the TPG about it

[alfnail 756]

That 1897 is most definitely NOT a Higher Sea Level F148. It's not the first time I have seen slabbed 1897's with this wording. Perhaps because the sea is higher than on the previous 1895/6 reverse this "High Sea Level" wording has been used, but please don't be mislead into thinking this is the rare 1897 F148 variety..........because that will hurt you later.

I picked up an 1893/2 at LCA a few years back, sold in a group which had been missed, think must be quite an easy one to slip through the net.

The chap selling the 1863 open 3 has not to my knowledge signed up to Predecimal, he is a very genuine highly recommended ebay seller.

[azda 973]

Here is the 1897 in question, the tide is clearly below the 1st fold of the robe

[terrysoldpennies 691]

Hi Azda Your right about the high tide 1897 . but the sure way to tell is by the P in PENNY . The P on the Common type points to the tooth ,on the High Tide it points to the gap between the teeth Terry

[azda 973]

Hi Azda Your right about the high tide 1897 . but the sure way to tell is by the P in PENNY . The P on the Common type points to the tooth ,on the High Tide it points to the gap between the teeth Terry

Thanks Terry and Ian, wasn't intending in a bid, more highlighting the fact I didn't think it was what the label states. Let's hope nobody goes stupid money on it or they'll be very disappointed

[Nordle11 564]

That 1897 is most definitely NOT a Higher Sea Level F148. It's not the first time I have seen slabbed 1897's with this wording. Perhaps because the sea is higher than on the previous 1895/6 reverse this "High Sea Level" wording has been used, but please don't be mislead into thinking this is the rare 1897 F148 variety..........because that will hurt you later.

I picked up an 1893/2 at LCA a few years back, sold in a group which had been missed, think must be quite an easy one to slip through the net.

The chap selling the 1863 open 3 has not to my knowledge signed up to Predecimal, he is a very genuine highly recommended ebay seller.

Thanks Ian. He always seems to have something I want haha.

Hi Azda Your right about the high tide 1897 . but the sure way to tell is by the P in PENNY . The P on the Common type points to the tooth ,on the High Tide it points to the gap between the teeth Terry

That's what was needed! Great indicator Terry thanks.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Nordle11

[alfnail 756]

Attached are reference pictures of 'P'ENNY and High Sea Level on an F148 I recently sold on ebay

[azda 973]

Well the P in PENNY definitely helps as I always thought the tide should be higher than the folds on the robe, but from Ians picture that's not always the case

[Nordle11 564]

And along with this area being weakly struck or the tide itself being hard to see it almost becomes debatable. The P in Penny is a great tell-tale and is what I'll be using from now.

Do you know if this applies to the 1902 high/low-tide varieties too?

Edited December 7, 2015 by Nordle11

[jacinbox 36]

Just taken a £10 punt on this 1863 - wishful thinking, I know. But the 3 looks odd, not normal but not the same as the open 3 I have. - probably a bog standard one when it arrives

David

Good luck. I was watching this coin but it did not look like a open 3 to me. I might be wrong for you know what ebay pics are like.

[terrysoldpennies 691]

Hi . as far as I an aware there is no difference in the legend on the two types of 1902 , but the tide height difference is easy to determine . The 1863 open 3 is not always easy to see. Terry

[davidrj 194]

And along with this area being weakly struck or the tide itself being hard to see it almost becomes debatable. The P in Penny is a great tell-tale and is what I'll be using from now.

Do you know if this applies to the 1902 high/low-tide varieties too?

I agree, P in Penny is the best guide, but only for 1897

Tide level is difficult to equate with folds, the level relative to the rock is easier to see - here's my montage of tide heights

">tides

Edited December 7, 2015 by davidrj

[Nordle11 564]

Ok thanks gents. Nice pictorial reference thanks David.

[Nordle11 564]

Does anyone have a copy of the V.R Court penny survey?

Was it also only in the August 1972 issue of Coin Monthly, or can it be found elsewhere?

Thanks