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On 10/18/2021 at 7:55 AM, alfnail said:

I put a few Victorian pennies on ebay yesterday evening.

They are mainly low grade,  but do include a number of rare types......so maybe something of interest for one or two members to fill a gap:-

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/alfnail/m.html?item=403234882871&hash=item5de2ac0537%3Ag%3AxxQAAOSwwXNharf~&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

 

 

Interesting that the 1854 no colons fetched just £17.50, Ian. Yours is literally only the second one I've ever seen for sale. The first one was advertised by Colin Cooke in August 2020, and I bought it. 

I note that yours has the first colon quite weakly showing, whereas there's no trace of any colons on mine. It's quite difficult to believe that die fill would affect every colon at the same time, (bar the first in some cases). So maybe it was an accidental omission. Although that might make more sense if there were no traces of the first colon on any of the specimens.        

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Hi Mike, 'yes' the no colons was a bit disappointing, despite low grade I thought it would have fetched more.

Agree with your thinking, never seen this 1854 reverse with one or two colons missing. As far as I can see there are no other particularly distinguishing features on this reverse which make it worthwhile looking for a 'pre die fill' example with colons still present. The G after REG is the only thing a bit unusual, always present, with that rectangular bit to the left of the bar . Here's my example:-

 

1854 Bramah 17a.jpg

G.jpg

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Good spot, Ian - all 3 of my examples have this little lump on the G.

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53 minutes ago, secret santa said:

Good spot, Ian - all 3 of my examples have this little lump on the G.

Just checked. Mine has too.

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22 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

I note that yours has the first colon quite weakly showing

Bramah states that the first colon is sometimes "discoverable".

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31 minutes ago, secret santa said:

Bramah states that the first colon is sometimes "discoverable".

Yes indeed. 

I've tried to work out what went on, but predictably, found it impossible. If there were no trace of any colons on any "no colon" 1854's, then I think one could definitively say that the colons were inadvertently omitted. But why should the first colon appear at all, albeit faintly? 

Answers on a postcard please.

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16 minutes ago, 1949threepence said:

Yes indeed. 

I've tried to work out what went on, but predictably, found it impossible. If there were no trace of any colons on any "no colon" 1854's, then I think one could definitively say that the colons were inadvertently omitted. But why should the first colon appear at all, albeit faintly? 

Answers on a postcard please.

Could be the same situation as with the dump halfpenny no obverse stops, where I suspect that a guide stop was lightly tapped in, but was never completely entered, leaving you with just a pimple that could easily be filled. To be a genuine 'no stops' I wouldn't want to see a trace of anything, even in high grade, and as a result I think the jury is still out as to whether it really exists. 

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58 minutes ago, Rob said:

Could be the same situation as with the dump halfpenny no obverse stops, where I suspect that a guide stop was lightly tapped in, but was never completely entered, leaving you with just a pimple that could easily be filled. To be a genuine 'no stops' I wouldn't want to see a trace of anything, even in high grade, and as a result I think the jury is still out as to whether it really exists. 

Absolutely.

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On 10/25/2021 at 10:19 AM, alfnail said:

The G after REG is the only thing a bit unusual, always present, with that rectangular bit to the left of the bar . Here's my example:-

Thanks Ian. I've added this information to my varieties and collection websites, acknowledging you as source.

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Thanks Richard, always glad to help.

I have been looking through all my past sales of the 1854 Bramah 17a, and found that a couple seem to also have a very weak colon after REG.

I only have digital microscope pictures of more recent sales, but attach a cropped old stock picture of what I think is my best example of a possible additional colon after REG.

Perhaps members can check their own examples to see if they think may have dots in same location.

 

1286542892_1854Bramah17aREGColon.jpg.6afc3ed6925400aeacd87a75228b7fab.jpg

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IMG_0206.JPG

Yes i have had a couple in decent grades that had a weak colon after the G.

I didnt keep photos though ,this is one i sold to a forum member and got the photograph off here.

 

Edited by PWA 1967

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FullSizeRender.jpg

This is another that i also sold on here and from memory also had the weak colon after G but havent got a clue if its possible to make the picture bigger to see properly.

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Here's something rather different for the penny collectors. The attached photos show a penny sized brass 'coin', clearly marked GPO Telephone Service. This was used by engineers in the pre-decimal era to test the operation of the Coin and Fee Checking Equipment in a public phone box - for those of a certain age the Press button A then button B type phone box. The idea was that the engineer checking the operation of a box should have no access to the money, but needed to test the equipment functioned correctly. He was issued with these tokens which are of the correct size and weight to operate the mechanism, thus avoiding any need for him to use actual pennies. The boxes were emptied by a specialist team and the coin compartments were taken away for the cash to be to be counted. Any brass tokens were removed and returned to the engineers for use another time. In this way any possibility of fraud or theft was eliminated.

The face with GPO Telephone Service is plainly obvious. The reverse shows S Eastern District, which refers to the organisational structure of the GPO at the time, and the number 447,  is likely to be the identifier for a specific engineer involved in this work. Alternatively, it may simply refer to the actual number of the token itself. To the best of my knowledge it isn't clear which. This particular example came from Margate exchange, some 30 years ago. End of history lesson!

PA260115.JPG

PA260116.JPG

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49 minutes ago, PWA 1967 said:

FullSizeRender.jpg

This is another that i also sold on here and from memory also had the weak colon after G but havent got a clue if its possible to make the picture bigger to see properly.

It does Pete. I just looked at it on my tablet and expanded the picture manually. It's the same as your other one. 

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Now as luck would have it, I actually did come across another no colons 1854, last night, made an offer and got it for £20. It's no great shakes but it's better than the very worn specimen I've got now.

I can make out the first colon - link to it 

Current no colons. 

 

 

original no colon cropped.jpg

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On 10/10/2021 at 5:03 PM, jelida said:

Personally I don't get the attraction of having no colon , it might make food less easy to digest LOL

 

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3 hours ago, copper123 said:

 

How would you grade it?

With a colonoscopy??

Assuming you can stomach it

Edited by Bronze & Copper Collector
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Interesting sub variety of the 1854 PT is a dot just underneath the first I of VICTORIA. They are known about, but not overly common, so I was pleased to capture one a couple of days ago.

Might show up better under greater magnification on the seller's e bay page - here 

 

dot 1854 cropped.jpg

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I had to do better pictures of the 1913 F175 1 + B ,as the others did not look anything like it and people would think they are turning up everywhere.

I was pleasently surprised when it turned up in the post 😃

f175--small.jpg

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Here are pics of an 1863 penny that I found in a bulk lot a couple of weeks ago, and have not seen before. At first glance it could be mistaken for a 3/1 overstrike, but I am sure this is 3 over a mis-placed 3 also giving a spike from the outer curve of the '3' but this spike curved rather than straight.  There is a small step in the top bar of the '3', which is possibly due to the top bar of the repair '3' punch, though the distances would not fit with the curve of the spike unless the overstrike '3'  punch was of a different size font so the jury is out there. I would welcome opinions, but it is interesting and has a place in my collection, particularly as it cost nothing.

Jerry

image218.jpg

image217.jpg

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image222.jpg

image221.jpg

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A shilling bust on this pattern halfpenny coming up at Spink. Must be the only time a shilling bust has ever occurred on a pattern for the copper coinage, unless you count those Charles II pattern 1663 "halfpennies" which are probably pattern shillings in copper anyway.

https://live.spink.com/lots/view/4-452X7J/victoria-1837-1901-pattern-halfpenny-1859-by-j-wyon-victoria-dei-gratia-no-stops-fille

And anyone fancy the no less than 6 1967 pennies, some lustrous, also in that sale! I'm amazed Spink have listed them separately.

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55 minutes ago, oldcopper said:

A shilling bust on this pattern halfpenny coming up at Spink. Must be the only time a shilling bust has ever occurred on a pattern for the copper coinage, unless you count those Charles II pattern 1663 "halfpennies" which are probably pattern shillings in copper anyway.

https://live.spink.com/lots/view/4-452X7J/victoria-1837-1901-pattern-halfpenny-1859-by-j-wyon-victoria-dei-gratia-no-stops-fille

And anyone fancy the no less than 6 1967 pennies, some lustrous, also in that sale! I'm amazed Spink have listed them separately.

Looks undergraded at aEF. Mine is better, and was previously in a 66 slab ex Terner. Apologies for the faulty auto-focus.

 

c1162 1859 decimal uncertain denomination.jpg

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53 minutes ago, Rob said:

Looks undergraded at aEF. Mine is better, and was previously in a 66 slab ex Terner. Apologies for the faulty auto-focus.

 

c1162 1859 decimal uncertain denomination.jpg

Very nice - doesn't look as if Spink's die flaw is a die flaw then.

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