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Barely visible on any of them until the Hiram Brown one..... which I understand he didn't even know he had

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They're all up on the website now tho' I'm missing some obverse pics. Maybe some members can help me out ?

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9 minutes ago, alfnail said:

Barely visible on any of them until the Hiram Brown one

202797201_1847MedusaHBzoom2.jpg.44fb162c49aaca36bf8d20b38453ec2d.jpg

Not sure of the Medusa resemblance now....more like me after 3 months of lockdown.

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I thought it looked like Jimmy Savile...... am I allowed to say that!? 🤪 

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8 minutes ago, alfnail said:

I thought it looked like Jimmy Savile...... am I allowed to say that!? 🤪 

Goodness gracious, as it ‘appens, I think you’re right

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1 hour ago, alfnail said:

I thought it looked like Jimmy Savile...... am I allowed to say that!? 🤪 

Now then, now then......

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5 hours ago, secret santa said:

Interesting that Jack Cooper's coin hasn't sold despite being advertised on Ebay and in other auctions - can't be that many serious copper penny collectors around.

If you define "serious" as necessarily including all patterns...

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27 minutes ago, 1949threepence said:

Now then, now then......

how's about that then...

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5 hours ago, Paddy said:

Not that I go for all these varieties, I would fight shy of that one because the really interesting feature - the Medusa's head - is not visible. We know it is there because of the other identifiers, but you can't see it in the pictures.

 

Tough call, isn't it? 

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Paddy said:

Not that I go for all these varieties, I would fight shy of that one because the really interesting feature - the Medusa's head - is not visible. We know it is there because of the other identifiers, but you can't see it in the pictures.

 

I would have to disagree  Paddy about the only interesting feature , it has a completely different  REV (mainly the shield ) than any other victorian copper penny .They were being looked for before the Medusa was ever noticed ,It was only pointed out to me by Terry when the first one sold at LCA  that there appeared to be a face and showed mine to the wife.

She said "its a Versace coin "  "it has a Medusa on it " and thats were the name came from , although people have been looking for them for twenty years the Medusa was never noticed before Terry spotted it.

The Victorian copper penny series is not that many really 1839 - 1860  ,so anything that is different in design such as the large rose mentioned  will become sought after by the few collectors there are.

This is a rare one which makes it even more desireable ,dont fight shy of looking for one  ,as they sell for a few quid if you find one 🙂

Edited by PWA 1967
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3 minutes ago, PWA 1967 said:

I would have to disagree  Paddy , it has a completely different  REV (mainly the shield ) than any other victorian copper penny .They were being looked for before the Medusa was ever noticed ,It was only pointed out to me by Terry when the first one sold at LCA  that there appeared to be a face and showed mine to the wife.

She said "its a Versace coin "  "it has a Medusa on it " and thats were the name came from , although people have been looking for them for twenty years the Medusa was never noticed before Terry spotted it.

The Victorian copper penny series is not that many really 1839 - 1860  ,so anything that is different in design such as the large rose mentioned  will become sought after by the few collectors there are.

This is a rare one which makes it even more desireable ,dont fight shy of looking for one  ,as they sell for a few quid if you find one 🙂

Don't get me wrong - if I see one (or for that matter "any") decent penny going cheap enough, I will bag it! I have built up most of my collection "on the cheap" and occasionally made a decent profit on the side too.

But I am not a "serious" variety collector, unlike many on here I know. I don't feel comfortable laying out a lot of money on a variety that requires a magnifying glass and an expert book or website to identify. Each to their own! 😃

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Paddy said:

Don't get me wrong - if I see one (or for that matter "any") decent penny going cheap enough, I will bag it! I have built up most of my collection "on the cheap" and occasionally made a decent profit on the side too.

But I am not a "serious" variety collector, unlike many on here I know. I don't feel comfortable laying out a lot of money on a variety that requires a magnifying glass and an expert book or website to identify. Each to their own! 😃

Thats the point i am trying to make Paddy ,you dont need a glass / book /website now if you look at the design its completely different.My eyesight is not the best but could spot one straight away ,better looking at the shield and comparing it with any other copper penny ,you dont even need to look at the OBV with the year on to spot one.

Remember to check every 1847 penny you may now have the chance to buy as like most varieties ,if you dont know what to look for you will never find one 😃

Edited by PWA 1967
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14 hours ago, Paddy said:

Not that I go for all these varieties, I would fight shy of that one because the really interesting feature - the Medusa's head - is not visible. We know it is there because of the other identifiers, but you can't see it in the pictures.

 

Not everybody refers to it as the Medusa variety. Certainly the two sold by LCA and the one being sold by Jack Relph, make no such reference. But they do pinpoint the other unique criteria related to the coin, such as the shield. 

The Medusa head will disappear with any wear, but the other features won't.

Mind, I wouldn't buy it either unless one appeared cheap. Despite it's rarity it just doesn't have enough of a "wow" factor for me personally.  

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1 hour ago, 1949threepence said:

Not everybody refers to it as the Medusa variety. Certainly the two sold by LCA and the one being sold by Jack Relph, make no such reference. But they do pinpoint the other unique criteria related to the coin, such as the shield. 

The Medusa head will disappear with any wear, but the other features won't.

Mind, I wouldn't buy it either unless one appeared cheap. Despite it's rarity it just doesn't have enough of a "wow" factor for me personally.  

The same can be said of Geo IV , W1111, and early Victorian Copper pennies, clearly a lion medallion on the centre of the breast plate, only really identifiable on choice or proof coins, but lost over time through die wear after 1841

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12 hours ago, Paddy said:

Each to their own! 😃

Absolutely - it's the love of collecting that we have in common, not necessarily the items we collect.

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Back to 1858 Large Rose pennies.

I have added this variety to my rare penny site, choosing only to picture the small date type as they seem genuinely rare. I'd be grateful for any further pictures from members.

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On 8/13/2020 at 10:21 PM, PWA 1967 said:

This sold the other day ,power of the forum and Richards rare penny site ?

 

It is a bit of a co-incidence isn't it. He'd had it on sale for at least 3 months.

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I know who bought it and I also know that he's been looking at the rare penny site recently........................

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8 minutes ago, secret santa said:

I know who bought it and I also know that he's been looking at the rare penny site recently........................

Ah.....interesting.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

It is a bit of a co-incidence isn't it. He'd had it on sale for at least 3 months.

He has had if for nearly two years Mike ,it needed someone to see it like the buyer who has mainly focused just on bronze and didnt know about or look for them before looking on Richards site 👍

 

Edited by PWA 1967

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A question - does the 1858 penny (P1518 no W.W.) only exist with the large date ?

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My own experience of the ‘No W.W.’ 1858’s are that the numerals are always the large type. I have seen all three numerals with different repairs, some more obvious than others, but I think that each numeral retains the same font type.

I believe that some collectors think there is a tall thin numeral one, and a different smaller type, but I think this is an optical illusion due to the position of the base of the 1 in respect to the border.

I show below 3 different dates (all No W.W.) with the numeral 1 at varying heights in respect to the border teeth. At first sight, one could be forgiven for thinking that the 1 in the top picture is a taller type.

When looking under a digital microscope, however, the numeral 1 appears to be the same height (and type) on all 3 coins. The pictures on the right hand side, taken at 140x mag, illustrate. I actually took the middle picture first, and measured at 1.61 mm height, and then slid the other two coins under the microscope without changing the magnification. I think that is why the other two pictures are marginally out of focus, due perhaps to slight differences in thickness of coins and wear of numerals. Nevertheless, I think it illustrates the point I am making.

It can also be noted that the top bar of underneath numeral 1, protruding towards the top left, can be seen at different heights.

combsized.jpg

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Posted (edited)

Many thanks, Ian. Here's another subtle variation.

1821393057_1858P1518noWW2obvzoom.JPG.211c790e06736f9d0ab64ef1d566dc32.JPG.

Edited by secret santa
addition

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Talking about the no WW types of 1858, I managed to get a Bramah 26a a week or two back from Cambridgeshire Coins (first I of BRITANNIAR has no serifs) - about VF, although they described it as EF, and apart from being a tad dark, problem free ~ £70 ~ I've no idea of their true scarcity, but there's a lot of 1858's, and it's the first one I've seen, so thought it should be snapped up forthwith. 

I think they'd either missed what it was, or didn't care either way, as they made no reference to it. 

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