Jump to content
British Coin Forum - Predecimal.com

50 Years of RotographicCoinpublications.com A Rotographic Imprint. Price guide reference book publishers since 1959. Lots of books on coins, banknotes and medals. Please visit and like Coin Publications on Facebook for offers and updates.

Coin Publications on Facebook

   Rotographic    

The current range of books. Click the image above to see them on Amazon (printed and Kindle format). More info on coinpublications.com

predecimal.comPredecimal.com. One of the most popular websites on British pre-decimal coins, with hundreds of coins for sale, advice for beginners and interesting information.

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Bruce said:

 

Finally have time to take pictures of the 1853 Penny Intermediate colon received before.  Pity that there's edge bruise at obverse, however it's still a lovely penny to appreciate.

 

Bruce - indeed - that's a very, very nice example of the rare Bramah 15 intermediate colon. Neat capture.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For anyone who is interested in Victorian Young Head penny sub-varieties.

Yesterday I managed to acquire an upgraded example for my 1857OT Gouby Style B (Narrow Date).

I knew this sub-variety was very difficult to locate, so I decided to update my ‘5 year’ statistics (all ebay YH listings). Some may recall I shared these on the forum about 6 months ago when there was a discussion about different numeral 7 fonts, and the rarity of the ‘long 7’ type of font in particular.

A close up of Gouby Style B is pictured below, together with the revised stats from my ‘5 year’ study period. On this date style the numerals 5 and 7 are very close, and both exhibit repairs which can be seen under the microscope, but not so clear on the poor reference example on Gouby’s website.

The stats show that I found only 15 examples of this particular date style, making it far rarer than the ‘long 7’ Gouby Style E. For comparison, during the same period I found 76 x 1856OT’s, 59 x 1853PT’s and 50 x 1844DFF’s.

Now I need to just move on 20 years and find a few more narrow date pennies!!

1692766104_1857DatePD.jpg.0a162786d5cadaa1a71f6c0ddd717ce9.jpg

324621083_StatsPicture.jpg.de2faf032bb22d785a3b4607bab2e365.jpg

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, alfnail said:

For anyone who is interested in Victorian Young Head penny sub-varieties.

Yesterday I managed to acquire an upgraded example for my 1857OT Gouby Style B (Narrow Date).

I knew this sub-variety was very difficult to locate, so I decided to update my ‘5 year’ statistics (all ebay YH listings). Some may recall I shared these on the forum about 6 months ago when there was a discussion about different numeral 7 fonts, and the rarity of the ‘long 7’ type of font in particular.

A close up of Gouby Style B is pictured below, together with the revised stats from my ‘5 year’ study period. On this date style the numerals 5 and 7 are very close, and both exhibit repairs which can be seen under the microscope, but not so clear on the poor reference example on Gouby’s website.

The stats show that I found only 15 examples of this particular date style, making it far rarer than the ‘long 7’ Gouby Style E. For comparison, during the same period I found 76 x 1856OT’s, 59 x 1853PT’s and 50 x 1844DFF’s.

Now I need to just move on 20 years and find a few more narrow date pennies!!

1692766104_1857DatePD.jpg.0a162786d5cadaa1a71f6c0ddd717ce9.jpg

324621083_StatsPicture.jpg.de2faf032bb22d785a3b4607bab2e365.jpg

 

But presumably Ian, not one of your 76 OT 1856 finds was in high grade? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

But presumably Ian, not one of your 76 OT 1856 finds was in high grade? 

There have been a few 56 OT's in high grade over the last 2 decades - Pywell-Phillips SCA 2018 (ex somewhere else but I've forgotten where), Baldwins 47 (Gregory II) - later sold London Coins, fantastic coin, nearly full lustre, Mark Rasmussen list 15 ( Old British Collection) - ditto almost BU, Dave Craddock also had a nice one in his tray several years ago.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, oldcopper said:

There have been a few 56 OT's in high grade over the last 2 decades - Pywell-Phillips SCA 2018 (ex somewhere else but I've forgotten where), Baldwins 47 (Gregory II) - later sold London Coins, fantastic coin, nearly full lustre, Mark Rasmussen list 15 ( Old British Collection) - ditto almost BU, Dave Craddock also had a nice one in his tray several years ago.

I also see 2 56 in auctions in past few months, i only remember the one at Warwick seems grade EF.  Is it implied the 56 is not as rare as we think before?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

But presumably Ian, not one of your 76 OT 1856 finds was in high grade? 

Hi Mike,

A quick scan through those 76 images indicates to me that about half were rubbish / very low grade, but there were about 10 in VF or even a tad better, and there were 2 that looked in very collectable better grade. I attach those images fyi 

comb.jpg

1037.jpg

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, oldcopper said:

There have been a few 56 OT's in high grade over the last 2 decades - Pywell-Phillips SCA 2018 (ex somewhere else but I've forgotten where), Baldwins 47 (Gregory II) - later sold London Coins, fantastic coin, nearly full lustre, Mark Rasmussen list 15 ( Old British Collection) - ditto almost BU, Dave Craddock also had a nice one in his tray several years ago.

Yes, the superb LCA specimen you mention, went in December 2009 for £950 hammer. I do remember the Dave Craddock one, but obviously there was no photo and it had gone by the time I enquired.   

2 hours ago, Bruce said:

I also see 2 56 in auctions in past few months, i only remember the one at Warwick seems grade EF.  Is it implied the 56 is not as rare as we think before?

The PT isn't that difficult to get in high grade. It's the OT that's seemingly difficult. 

56 minutes ago, alfnail said:

Hi Mike,

A quick scan through those 76 images indicates to me that about half were rubbish / very low grade, but there were about 10 in VF or even a tad better, and there were 2 that looked in very collectable better grade. I attach those images fyi 

comb.jpg

1037.jpg

Yes, they would be very collectable, Ian.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A couple just back from NGC both really nice in hand , sellers pictures who i bought them off.

1891 MS65 RED  1894 MS65 RB.

294762596_660997385319399_8526129059217278030_n.jpg

1894-l.jpg

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, PWA 1967 said:

A couple just back from NGC both really nice in hand , sellers pictures who i bought them off.

1891 MS65 RED  1894 MS65 RB.

 

 

You mean "really nice in plastic"....

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A nice 1797 Penny 10 Leaves NGC MS64  ,better lustre than i was able to capture in the picture  ,without the normal contact marks.

IMG_6677.jpg

IMG_6683.jpg

Edited by PWA 1967
  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, PWA 1967 said:

A nice 1797 Penny 10 Leaves NGC MS64  ,better lustre than i was able to capture in the picture  ,without the normal contact marks.

IMG_6677.jpg

IMG_6683.jpg

nice ship and waves sez it all really

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/4/2023 at 3:32 AM, PWA 1967 said:

A nice 1797 Penny 10 Leaves NGC MS64  ,better lustre than i was able to capture in the picture  ,without the normal contact marks.

IMG_6677.jpg

IMG_6683.jpg

Everyone should have a nice example of one of these. Such lovely coins!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some rare pennies in the Spink auction:

The Numismatic Collector's Series Featuring The George Blaine Collection Part IV

e - Auction

Ends: 17 May 2023 at 10:30 AM EDT
Spink USA | 458 Lots  

 
 
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, Old Money said:

Should book with SpecSavers!

https://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/6029704-008/65/

 

Although I reckon the NGC example above is a genuine 4/3. If you blow the pic up, you can see the usual details.

The one offered by Noonans is taking the proverbial. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, 1949threepence said:

Although I reckon the NGC example above is a genuine 4/3. If you blow the pic up, you can see the usual details.

The one offered by Noonans is taking the proverbial. 

Agreed, no evidence of top of 3 going through top of 4. In my experience if you tilt a genuine 4/3 you will see the 3 quite clearly.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Old Money said:

Agreed, no evidence of top of 3 going through top of 4. In my experience if you tilt a genuine 4/3 you will see the 3 quite clearly.

I know that identification of the 4/3 can be a bit tricky, especially for the novice - and is certainly difficult for the naked eye, even with the sharpest eyesight - but for an experienced company like Noonans, specialising in English coins, that mistake is inexplicable. Also, they seem to slightly resent mistakes being pointed out to them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

I know that identification of the 4/3 can be a bit tricky, especially for the novice - and is certainly difficult for the naked eye, even with the sharpest eyesight - but for an experienced company like Noonans, specialising in English coins, that mistake is inexplicable. Also, they seem to slightly resent mistakes being pointed out to them.

Yes i agree ,i would not buy that as an 1854/3 looking at the picture.

All it does is waste everyones time describing them wrong as the majority just get returned. The vendor not paid or the auctioneer left with a coin they then have to try and sell someone else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

I know that identification of the 4/3 can be a bit tricky, especially for the novice - and is certainly difficult for the naked eye, even with the sharpest eyesight - but for an experienced company like Noonans, specialising in English coins, that mistake is inexplicable. Also, they seem to slightly resent mistakes being pointed out to them.

Indeed Mike, they could employ at least a dozen people on this forum who would describe pennies better than they do. At least their pictures are good quality, so you can easily see all their mistakes 😜

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, alfnail said:

Indeed Mike, they could employ at least a dozen people on this forum who would describe pennies better than they do. At least their pictures are good quality, so you can easily see all their mistakes 😜

I literally thought exactly the same thing, Ian.

Maybe we should offer our skills. Could take it in turns ;)  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×