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26 minutes ago, shane carew said:

There are better pictures of the coin on the original ebay listing 223650940409

 

Copied and pasted that into the e bay search bar, but it didn't find it unfortunately. Thanks anyway.

Never mind, I'll go with the majority view of Obverse 9.

 

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1 hour ago, shane carew said:

Yes, that is the same coin and the previous seller, well done. Definitely obv 9.

Jerry

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2 hours ago, shane carew said:

Thanks, that's a much better view and under magnification it's clearly obverse 9. 

Not bidding as I already have a decent F97 (and 96 for that matter). But I was just intrigued. 

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Some interesting perspectives on the bronze coinage of Queen Victoria from 1860 to 1894, written in 1907 by Fleet Surgeon A E Weightman, RN. 

Although why he refers to Leonard Charles Wyon as Leonard Courtney Wyon, I've no idea - mistake, or did he know something we don't?

link to pages    

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Hi Shane That's probably due to die clash and its quite common on Victorian bun pennies , it happens when the two dies come together without a blank coin being in place ready to be stamped by the two dies on its top and  bottom , this impact of one die against the other creates a ghostly imprint of the image to be transferred onto the opposite die. So that when the dies are subsequently used to make the next imprints on blanks, they carry the damage marks on the face of the dies which transfer onto the new coin.   In the case of your pictured coin the marks are probable the folds on britannias  gown .

 

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You often see evidence of a die clash at the front of the Queen's neck. Common area for it.

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Only on the coins, not in real life, obviously.

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Yes indeed a die clash and I have seen the die-clash related spikes around the queen's neck, which resemble arrows from a pygmy's blowpipe. I raised this as interesting because the central fishtail of the 1860 penny could similarly be a consequence of another die clash, especially when the mainstream thought around this phenomenon is an incorrectly re-engraved die. It is for this reason that I deliberately picked-up a die-clash on the outer ribbon. 

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A year or two b4 the survey it was in the national press about the H and KN penny , judgeing on the presses power these days to practically cause circulating coinage to dissapear in an instant , I would expect that to be the reason

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Strangely this die clash 1862 penny is on ebay right now, it must have been one hell of a clash , for as well as the folds on the gown the clear outline of Britanniars shield can be seen running round through Victoria's Ribbon ,so bad in fact that it seems to have cracked the die on the right side of the coin.

1120878082_1862dieclashmostextremeseen3.JPG.594288360fd5b07c6695425882b83b69.JPG

 

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On 10/4/2019 at 11:23 PM, Peckris 2 said:

 

That's interesting. That makes the 19KN less than half as scarce as the 18KN, and I've always thought it much more scarce when you look at the numbers available for sale, and the numbers found. Mind you, the catalogues never had a 19KN so much more valuable, except perhaps in UNC.

Indeed.

Going back to this question, I'm wondering to what extent Court's estimates on several early 20th century scarcities, are accurate. 

For those who are unaware, V.R.Court ran a short series of incredibly useful (and to this day still referred to) articles under the heading, "Major varieties of UK pennies 1902 to 1967", notably in the August and September 1972 editions of Coin Monthly. 

Court's opinion on the mintages for these varieties (pre melt), are as follows:-

1902 low tide =  1,212,600 (sounds about right)

1903 open 3   =       37,300 (possibly slight underestimate?)

1905 F160      = 3,231,350 (sounds about right)

1908 F164      = 1,166,550 (sounds about right)

1908 F164A   =      55,550 (yes, but see F176)

1908 F165      = 3,370,000 (sounds about right)

1909 F169      =      23,200 (sounds about right)

1913 F175      = 1,733,500 (given current availability, maybe an over estimate, or just not collected)

1913 F176      =    948,750 (as above)

1915 rec ear   = 5,404,200 (maybe over estimate)

1916 rec ear  = 16,129,850 (sounds about right) 

1918H            =    2,465,658 (probably about correct, but reported degree of scarcity in the immediate pre -withdrawal period may have been due to collector uptake)

1918KN          =   1,195,142  (as above)

1919H             =   4,787,556 (probably about correct)

1919KN           =     422,044 (as above)

Mostly correct I'd say, but with a major discrepancy (in my view) between open 3 & 164A on the one hand, with F175 & F176, on the other.

If Court's figures on the 175 & 176 are correct, then it would suggest the vast majority met their fate in the melt, having not been specifically collected, except by default. Actually, that could well be the case given that there are a fair number of the extant population of 175's and 176's that are in high grade, whereas conversely that is manifestly not the case for the open 3 and the 164A. 

Post melt, probably all four types are of roughly comparable rarity.     

 

 

 

 

 

  

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3 hours ago, PWA 1967 said:

F176

1913--m.jpg

New purchases Pete? 

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1 hour ago, 1949threepence said:

New purchases Pete? 

This year ,i have just not put them on here before though.

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Some lovely coins there @PWA

Just what the hell happened here? It looks like someone shot the die with a Magnum .357 just as it struck the planchet. Normally I would have said it was a 7 over 7 but with all the clashs and cruds I'd say I am not too sure. For anyone interested the coin is on eBay here.

1870_n.jpg

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1 hour ago, shane carew said:

Some lovely coins there @PWA

Just what the hell happened here? It looks like someone shot the die with a Magnum .357 just as it struck the planchet. Normally I would have said it was a 7 over 7 but with all the clashs and cruds I'd say I am not too sure. For anyone interested the coin is on eBay here.

1870_n.jpg

I would assume it's the seller's way of drawing attention to what he sees as discrepancies on the coin's surface. Slightly overstated though. 

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2 hours ago, Bernie said:

:lol: Only $10 Bernie.

I remember once doing a big double take when I saw a 1928 penny with a large portrait .. after some investigation I found the same seller was offering a 1927 penny with a small head. :D

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I asked the vendor to confirm the die pairing and surprise, surprise, he cancelled the listing. At least it must have been an honest mistake.

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A few of the better looking detecting penny finds from the last few weeks of searching.

The 1868 coin has some kind of stamp on the Queens chest.

IMG_E2162.JPG

IMG_E2163.JPG

IMG_E2168.JPG

IMG_E2169.JPG

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