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2 minutes ago, 1949threepence said:

There are three questions which we don't know the answer to (well somebody might, assuming they're still alive). They are:-

1) How the single 1954 coin entered circulation, or if it was removed from the Royal MInt premises, accidentally or otherwise by a Royal MInt employee.

2) If it did somehow get into circulation via a mistake at the Royal MInt, who initially found it.

3/ How did Peck get hold of it?

From a legal perspective, the Royal Mint would have to assume that it accidentally entered circulation, but having done so - obviously by means unknown - ownership is then transferred to the current bearer. That's the way I would see it anyway. Any rate, the Mint have never claimed ownership.  

  

Don't the Royals and the BM have any? 

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14 minutes ago, azda said:

Don't the Royals and the BM have any? 

Given they were all supposedly melted down, apart from this one specimen, that wouldn't logically follow.  

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Just now, 1949threepence said:

Given they were all supposedly melted down, apart from this one specimen, that wouldn't logically follow.  

Correct, this is why i ask the question, as they generally take one, it's to poder the theory of there being just one, so if they also had one then it won't be unique. There's a chap who is frequenting coin news, the keeper or former keeper of the royal collection, throwing him the question would be good

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1 hour ago, 1949threepence said:

Hope this is OK, Bernie:-

Just to add it's the best I can get, as the actual pic on the document itself, is not that brilliant.

re-sized 1954.jpg

Thanks Mike for your close up picture. The attached picture is from Coin News of January 1992. The 1954 penny was sold, by auction ?, on 25th November 1991 by Spink & Son. If there was an auction on that date I would be most interested to hear about it, as I don't have a copy. the coin was bought by Keith Ashman. The coin then changed hands again on the 10th April 1992, to the present owner. The royal mint have never contested the ownership of the coin probably because they had no evidence that the coin had left the mint illegally. ("Hearsay" one curator of the mint believes that he knew how the coin left the mint.)

1954 penny coin news Jan 92.jpg

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46 minutes ago, Bernie said:

Thanks Mike for your close up picture. The attached picture is from Coin News of January 1992. The 1954 penny was sold, by auction ?, on 25th November 1991 by Spink & Son. If there was an auction on that date I would be most interested to hear about it, as I don't have a copy. the coin was bought by Keith Ashman. The coin then changed hands again on the 10th April 1992, to the present owner. The royal mint have never contested the ownership of the coin probably because they had no evidence that the coin had left the mint illegally. ("Hearsay" one curator of the mint believes that he knew how the coin left the mint.)

1954 penny coin news Jan 92.jpg

Thanks for that, Bernie. Very interesting reading.

£24k in 1991. I bet it would fetch a lot more now, possibly even 6 figures.

So Peck acquired the penny from Spinks. I wonder who they acquired it from? 

 

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I'm attaching the photo that I have (hope the owner doesn't mind) and you'll see that the border beads are different from the black and white pictured coin, being much more oval in shape.

1954 - Copy.jpg

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27 minutes ago, secret santa said:

I'm attaching the photo that I have (hope the owner doesn't mind) and you'll see that the border beads are different from the black and white pictured coin, being much more oval in shape.

1954 - Copy.jpg

The small scratch in front of the helmut plume and the two dents in the trident prongs, also the dent in the bottom stem of the "E" of "ONE" are visible on the 1992 coin News picture and yours.

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Its the same coin the beads can alter with the angle of the picture and light.

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I am with Santa on this. There is no toning band on Santa's picture.

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1 hour ago, jacinbox said:

I am with Santa on this. There is no toning band on Santa's picture.

Hmm, not sure what to make of it. The dent in the bottom stem of the "E" of "ONE", mentioned by Bernie, is present on all three pics. Richard's, Bernie's article, and mine from the Empire Co document. What I can't explain is that the first two appear to show a lustred coin, but Richard's pic shows a coin that seems to be fully toned.  

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Sorry guys but that's the same coin. Scratch by Britannia's forehead/helmet plume confirms it.

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For reference.

1.png

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I see Bernie already mentioned the scratch, surely cased closed?

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14 minutes ago, Nordle11 said:

I see Bernie already mentioned the scratch, surely cased closed?

The indentation on the E is present on all three - my pic not being good enough to show the scratch. So it's definitely the same coin. Odds against those identical flaws being present on two coins being astronomical.

But how do you expain the loss of lustre, Matt?  

 

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Just now, 1949threepence said:

The indentation on the E is present on all three - my pic not being good enough to show the scratch. So it's definitely the same coin. Odds against those identical flaws being present on two coins being astronomical.

But how do you expain the loss of lustre, Matt?  

 

Wouldn't the scan do that? Which one are we looking at that has lustre (sorry I'm out of the loop atm)

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15 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

I received my DNW auction lots today, and in the Peck that I won, there was a very interesting document from the Empire Coin company about the probably unique 1954 penny. Take a look:-

   

empire coins 2.jpg

empire coins 1.jpg

empire coins 3.jpg

empire coins 4.jpg

 

14 hours ago, Paulus said:

From Tony Clayton's site:

1954_1d_tony_clayton.png

 

12 hours ago, Bernie said:

Thanks Mike for your close up picture. The attached picture is from Coin News of January 1992. The 1954 penny was sold, by auction ?, on 25th November 1991 by Spink & Son. If there was an auction on that date I would be most interested to hear about it, as I don't have a copy. the coin was bought by Keith Ashman. The coin then changed hands again on the 10th April 1992, to the present owner. The royal mint have never contested the ownership of the coin probably because they had no evidence that the coin had left the mint illegally. ("Hearsay" one curator of the mint believes that he knew how the coin left the mint.)

1954 penny coin news Jan 92.jpg

 

9 hours ago, secret santa said:

I'm attaching the photo that I have (hope the owner doesn't mind) and you'll see that the border beads are different from the black and white pictured coin, being much more oval in shape.

1954 - Copy.jpg

 

18 minutes ago, Nordle11 said:

Wouldn't the scan do that? Which one are we looking at that has lustre (sorry I'm out of the loop atm)

If you look at the top one posted by me, that clearly shows a coin with lustre, as does Bernie's "Market Scene" article. But the other two, posted separately by Paulus and Richard, show a toned coin apparently devoid of lustre.

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Thank you for copying them all into one, that makes for much easier comparing :D so I reckon it's the way the picture is taken, scan or photo. The scans are taking the lustre out of it. The scratch by the head does it for me, although hard to see in your photo, can you see it with the photo in hand?

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34 minutes ago, Nordle11 said:

Thank you for copying them all into one, that makes for much easier comparing :D so I reckon it's the way the picture is taken, scan or photo. The scans are taking the lustre out of it. The scratch by the head does it for me, although hard to see in your photo, can you see it with the photo in hand?

No, only the indentation on the E. The scratch is either invisible on the photo, or was made later. 

I'd imagine the Empire photo was taken circa 1963.

The fact that Spink acquired the cooin in 1956, must take us back very close to the person who originally found or held the coin. Wonder who that was.... 

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13 hours ago, Bernie said:

Thanks Mike for your close up picture. The attached picture is from Coin News of January 1992. The 1954 penny was sold, by auction ?, on 25th November 1991 by Spink & Son. If there was an auction on that date I would be most interested to hear about it, as I don't have a copy. the coin was bought by Keith Ashman. The coin then changed hands again on the 10th April 1992, to the present owner. The royal mint have never contested the ownership of the coin probably because they had no evidence that the coin had left the mint illegally. ("Hearsay" one curator of the mint believes that he knew how the coin left the mint.)

1954 penny coin news Jan 92.jpg

I looked at Spink's archive, but couldn't find any auctions for 25th November1991.

 

 

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1 hour ago, 1949threepence said:

No, only the indentation on the E. The scratch is either invisible on the photo, or was made later. 

I'd imagine the Empire photo was taken circa 1963.

The fact that Spink acquired the cooin in 1956, must take us back very close to the person who originally found or held the coin. Wonder who that was.... 

Mike, Is the picture from the Empire coin company an actual photograph or a Scanned ? picture of some sort. If it was reproduced in 1963, the technology to copy from a photograph was very basic. The picture submitted by Secret Santa was a "Scan" of the coin. The actual coin has some residual subdued lustre. I have attached another picture from the front cover page of the 1992 coin news.

1954 penny coin news cover.jpg

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It was lot 316 in Spink 89 on 25/11/1991. Hammered at £21K.

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1 minute ago, Rob said:

It was lot 316 in Spink 89 on 25/11/1991. Hammered at £21K.

Rob, Have you any pictures or info from the auction catalogue, please ?

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1 hour ago, 1949threepence said:

I looked at Spink's archive, but couldn't find any auctions for 25th November1991.

 

 

Note also the bruise on the trident . Another significant point about the 1954 is that the Obverse has 118 teeth and 118 reverse  .   The 1960s pennies have 119 Obv.  118 Rev.   Terry

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The catalogue images are pixelated black and white, so no better than what you have. The cover might be more informative however.

img180.jpg

Edited by Rob

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