coin grade

[sparkey0151 0]

Hi all, as you can tell i am totaly new to coin collecting, my question is i have just received a new coin book british coins market value 2015 from the publishers of stamp, my question is this in some of the coin lisings you will have the grading f vf ef unc, on some coins it only has a value on ef and un and on f and vf its got a * with no value, does this mean a coin that comes under f or vf have no value?

regards john

[sparkey0151 0]

I have just found the meaning of the astrix against the f and vf, it means no firm value at the time of going to press, so i am looking of someway book, website etc to value coins f and vf any sugestions would be appreciated.

regards john

[TomGoodheart 373]

Basically, unless a coin is so rare there's no price because no examples exist in that grade, the lack of a price means it's of little commercial value.

That doesn't mean it has no collector value (just look at things selling on eBay!) nor that a dealer won't give it a price (they have to cover overheads, postage and other costs so unless it's in a pick-it-yourself bin for 10p you might still have to pay £1!)

I believe most guides have a minimum of £1 below which it's considered pointless taking time to guess a price!

The general guide is buy the best you can. If no value is given for VF then there are probably enough decent examples for you to aim for UNC.

Of course, if you like a coin and it gives you pleasure to own, who cares what grade it is? Just don't spend too much on it!

.

[Michael-Roo 777]

Hi John.

You're quite correct. It simply means no sales information is recorded for examples in those grades. It usually applies to common modern coins.

Did you decide yet on which series you will collect?

[sparkey0151 0]

I was just going to collect silver up to queen victoria for now, but i seem to be getting drawn to george the third, but to be honest, there seems a lot to learn and on receiving this book has confused me a bit more as my last book was from 2011 and it did have prices mostly right through the grades so i felt at least if i looked at most coins from a F point of veiw i would have a good chance of getting a bargain, but i have only been collecting a few weeks so am just starting to appreciate the look of some coins, in a few more weeks i will probably be looking at them in a different light again LOL.

REGARDS JOHN

[TomGoodheart 373]

Everyone is different but I will say that when I first started I bought lots of coins to fill gaps. However with time I have come to realise a lot of them were pretty poor. More importantly I just don't get any thrill when I look at the things. Whereas the better examples I still enjoy.

Coins are little bits of art. A good deal of time and effort was put into their design and execution and for the most part you only get an appreciation for that when a coin is over a certain grade.

To my mind a bargain is only a bargain if you're happy with your purchase a year or so down the line. If you feel (as I occasionally do) you'd really rather have the money you spent back, to buy something now with your greater knowledge and understanding then it perhaps wasn't such a bargain? Just my view of course.

.

[declanwmagee 122]

As a rule of thumb John, divide by two as you go down the grades, so F will be half VF, and EF will be twice VF.

There are plenty of exceptions, before the rest of you chime in with crazy Bun Penny gradients, but for your purposes, and particularly for silver, that'll do you!

[Peckris 579]

Coins & Market Values usually couldn't be a*sed to list common coins in several grades. A far better bet would be Collectors Coins GB where if a value isn't given for F and VF, it probably isn't worth more than a few pence.

[arthurcrown 1]

I had my collection professionally valued by a VERY well known firm in the North West recently. A couple of surprises were thrown up when they came back, this is one of the more unpleasant ones.....

This 1787 sixpence was graded AVF/GVF, which I pretty much agree with. It's a fairly common coin which has some wear but is problem free with pretty clear detail.

However, it was valued at £5, little more than its bullion value !!. When I questioned this and pointed out they had one advertised for sale in a similar condition for nearly x10 times that ammount I was told this is what the expert had decided at the time due to mine being very worn and scratched, and that they were sticking by it.

I realise grading is subjective but surely this remark contradicts what they have put it down as ?

Don't think I'll be sending anymore of my coins there in the future.

[Paulus 1,942]

Well it would definitely fetch more than £5 on eBay. perhaps even £20 or more ... I am wondering what the valuation 'viewpoint' was?

• how much they would offer you for it
• how much you would realise at auction
• how much it would cost you to replace it with one in similar condition

These 3 valuations would differ considerably

Did you have any pleasant surprises?

Edit: by the way, the current bullion value is only about £1

Edited November 29, 2014 by Paulus

[arthurcrown 1]

The valuation was for home insurance purposes so I'm guessing it would be replacement value.

I've a couple of Charles II farthings (Fine) I picked up cheaply valued at £50 each and a 1712 R&P Shilling (GF/VF) valued at £145.

However a few of the other coins are valued a little over optimistically in my opinion.......

1861 Farthing (VF) £40

1827 Halfpenny (F/VF) £65

1834 Sixpence (VF/GF) £125

[Peckris 579]

The valuation was for home insurance purposes so I'm guessing it would be replacement value.

I've a couple of Charles II farthings (Fine) I picked up cheaply valued at £50 each and a 1712 R&P Shilling (GF/VF) valued at £145.

However a few of the other coins are valued a little over optimistically in my opinion.......

1861 Farthing (VF) £40

1827 Halfpenny (F/VF) £65

1834 Sixpence (VF/GF) £125

It sounds like you came out overall on the plus side. Those 3 overestimates are quite absurd IMO, especially compared to the ridiculous £5 they rated the 1787 6d.

[Coinery 926]

I think the point about a low valuation on the 6d is that there are so many top grade coins available, and this will definitely chuck an example like yours into a dealers bargain bin at a fair. I really don't mean that disrespectfully, as all coins mean something to someone (and God knows I love them all), especially within the context of a collection. Bullion value is harsh, though, I do agree!

[arthurcrown 1]

Exactly. That's why I chose to send them to a well known reputable dealer in the first place.

Biggest isn't always best apparently......at least that's what the missus told me

[Rob 3,002]

Exactly. That's why I chose to send them to a well known reputable dealer in the first place.

Biggest isn't always best apparently......at least that's what the missus told me

Better go on a body mass reduction course then.

[arthurcrown 1]

When grading coins is it the obverse which takes priority, i.e if the reverse is stronger is this taken into consideration or is the lower obverse grade given ?

My Charles II Halfcrown is a good example of this which I'm unsure about.

The reverse is strong with good detail ( VF ?) while the obverse has more wear plus a couple of nicks on the portrait (GF ?)

[Coinery 926]

Hi AC,

The grade is a stand alone thing, the obverse is the grade it is, as is the reverse, none takes precedence over the other. The bit you're mixing up I think is eye-appeal and, of course, the added factor for eye appeal (or equivalents of) of the grading companies!

There are those that might say a particular grade overall, which might be, in your case, a nip off the rev, and an addition in grade to the ob?

Generally, especially with early milled, a design can wear more quickly on one side than the other, and it's then that the great debate begins about whether, hypothetically speaking, if you have, say, for example, a spike in a design a CM high, which protects the rest of the design, at the expense of the other side...would the worn spike, with everything else intact be an AU grade, whilst the other side is graded a lowly VF? Therein lies the divide between graders!

[arthurcrown 1]

So I'm guessing at the end of the day grading is down to the individuals preference as to what is taken into account. Bit of a grey area then with early milled, as you mentioned for some reason a lot of the other coins I've seen similar to mine have a weaker reverse but slightly less wear around the edges on the obverse.

Makes it a bit tricky when trying to ascertain value when looking at guide prices and there's such a big difference between grades.

[Coinery 926]

So I'm guessing at the end of the day grading is down to the individuals preference as to what is taken into account.

Well, no, not really! What I'm trying to say is a grade, both obverse AND reverse, are definitive grades. However, when it comes to giving a coin a number, as TPGC's do, other factors come into play, such as digs, edge bruises, corrosion, etc. (which they mark a coin down for number-wise) and this is where it gets confusing, because you can look up this magic number on the given TPGC's website and come out with a grade, such as EF?

So, this is the essence of the divide (quite separate from the idea of whether you like your coins raw or entombed, or whether they are protected or not), because traditionalists will say a coins circulation wear is what determines the grade, not that aunt Doris used it to knock for a gin at the bar, or little Tommy rolled it down a hill for fun when he was 6. These are all things that affect eye appeal, rather than grade, IMHO!

TPGC's have somehow managed to confuse the issue of a coin's wear by including damage and tonal qualities, etc.

Hope that makes sense?

[Paulus 1,942]

Something else I often question relates to Arthur's question about his C2 HC, where he feels the grades are significantly different on the obverse and reverse. There is very often only one single grade proffered by dealers, sellers, TPGs, auction houses etc ... ff only a single grade is to be assigned, should it be the lower of the two sides, some kind of average, or something else?

I have heard that the obverse grade is given a higher weighting when 'averaging out' the 2 sides, but I don't know if that is common practice?

[Peckris 579]

I think it's a simple question of which is listed first? In which case it's ALWAYS the obverse. But perhaps I'm barking up the wrong tree?

Edited December 1, 2014 by Peckris

[Coinery 926]

There is very often only one single grade proffered by dealers, sellers, TPGs, auction houses etc ...

I have heard that the obverse grade is given a higher weighting when 'averaging out' the 2 sides, but I don't know if that is common practice?

To avoid falling into the trap of the TPGCs you have to avoid seeing the bust as a weighting tool in deciding a grade, I think? Far better to have a grade straight down the line, then say weak bust, poor reverse strike, edge knocked, digs to cheek, etc. because, without extensive algorithms, which would need every industry and collector to uniformly abide by, we'd be all over the place, which we are already, even with a simple formula.

With regards to one grade for a two-grade coin, I think it would be a meeting between the two, with a statement along the lines of VF 'overall' or whatever!

That's how I see it anyway.

[Paulus 1,942]

Yes, where 2 grades are given the obverse is always given first. But where only a single grade is given, as is very often the case, how is it arrived at if the obverse and reverse grade differently?

So you see it as a straight average Stuart?

Edited December 1, 2014 by Paulus

[arthurcrown 1]

That's cleared things up a bit thanks. I was previously under the impression any damage affected it's grade across the board, slabbed or raw. I've seen coins listed as EF/AUNC with severe edge knocks, corrosion spots etc and questioned the grading. I'm guessing I should look more closely at just the wear when assessing.

Personally I'd prefer a problem free coin of a slightly lower grade with no damage to a coin of a higher one with issues. Unless it's for investment purposes I'm going to be looking at it for pleasure.

Think I need to do a bit more swotting up on the subject ! I notice there's a book titled 'Grading British Coins' advertised on this website that may be worth a look.

[Paulus 1,942]

That book is universally recommended Arthur!