most up-to-date literature

[Mr T 169]

I've been considering my library lately and how up to date the reference material is with regards to varieties.

For post 1860 bronze Michael Freeman's books seem to be the standard.

For post 1860 pennies it seems like Michael Gouby's books are the most comprehensive, though the Gouby X variety isn't in any of his books.

For the silver Peter Davies' British Silver Coins Since 1816 seems to be the most comprehensive book.

For the half sovereign and sovereign Michael Marsh's books seem to be the most comprehensive.

For the two and five pound pieces I'm not sure of any books that cover them.

Is what I have the best with regards to coverage of varieties? I think David Groome's books might have more varieties covered but I understand they're 20th century only.

And are there any books that covers two and five pound pieces?

[DaveG38 385]

I've been considering my library lately and how up to date the reference material is with regards to varieties.

For post 1860 bronze Michael Freeman's books seem to be the standard.

For post 1860 pennies it seems like Michael Gouby's books are the most comprehensive, though the Gouby X variety isn't in any of his books.

For the silver Peter Davies' British Silver Coins Since 1816 seems to be the most comprehensive book.

For the half sovereign and sovereign Michael Marsh's books seem to be the most comprehensive.

For the two and five pound pieces I'm not sure of any books that cover them.

Is what I have the best with regards to coverage of varieties? I think David Groome's books might have more varieties covered but I understand they're 20th century only.

And are there any books that covers two and five pound pieces?

For what it's worth, I did consider a book on 20thC gold varieties, but with a little research I realised that most of it, with a few exceptions, would revolve around the Commonwealth mint marks and those are already well documented. The exceptions include the 1994 and 1996, BOE and rugby gold £2 coins, the 1937 proof £5 coins and as I recall the 1902 proof £2. It appears that there are several varieties of the 1937 proof £5 coin, despite the low mintage of 5500 or so. Quite how this could occur, given the relative softness of gold and the low mintage is something I don't understand. It's hard to see how the punches could have worn out so quickly, as to need recutting, leading to not one but several varieties.

Whatever the explanation of these things, I quickly realised that there are relatively few gold collectors, and even less gold variety collectors, and probably a miniscule number of 1937 gold proof £5 variety collectors (around the same number of thumbs on my feet), and so I didn't bother to continue to research this area of collecting.

Edited October 5, 2014 by DaveG38

[Mr T 169]

Interesting - do you remember what these 1902 and 1937 varieties are?

I wouldn't have though there'd be any varieties either though I recall someone here saying a while back that the 1887 £5 (I think) dies struck on average 127 or so coins each (and I think that was for the currency coins too).

[DaveG38 385]

Interesting - do you remember what these 1902 and 1937 varieties are?

I wouldn't have though there'd be any varieties either though I recall someone here saying a while back that the 1887 £5 (I think) dies struck on average 127 or so coins each (and I think that was for the currency coins too).

For 1937 there are 10 (yes 10) obverse types:

Obv 1 - Upright of ‘E‘ in Georgivs points to space, the upright of ‘I‘ in VI points to a space, the upright of ‘R‘ in BR: points to a space and the upright of ‘D‘ in F:D: points to a tooth.

Obv 2 - Upright of ‘E‘ in Georgivs points to tooth, the upright of ‘I‘ in GEORGIVS points to a space, the upright of ‘R‘ in Rex points to a tooth, and the upright of ‘F‘ in F:D: points to a space.

Obv 3 - Upright of ‘D‘ in D:G: points to a space, the right hand upright of ‘N‘ of Omn: points to a space, the right hand upright of ‘N‘ of IND points to a space and the upright of ‘P‘ of Imp points to a space.

Obv 4 - Upright of ‘R‘ in Georgivs points to toothe, the upright of ‘D‘ of D:G: points to a space, the upright of ‘R‘ of BR points to a tooth and the upright of ‘E‘ of Rex points to a space.

Obv 5 - Similar to obv 4 but having an enlarged portrait from 25.4 mm instead of 25.6 mm, producing an obv. with a distinctly thinner rim. The ‘H‘ in the designer‘s initials on this obv. have longer upper arms almost matching the lower ones, whilst on obv. 4 the upper arms are shorter.

Obv 6 - The upright of ‘R‘ in Georgivs points to a space, the upright of ‘D‘ of F:D points to a tooth, the upright of ‘D‘ of IND: points to a tooth, and the upright of ‘I‘ of IMP. points to a tooth.

Obv 7 - The upright of ‘R‘ in Georgivs points to space, the upright of ‘B‘ of BR points to a tooth, the right hand upright of the ‘N‘ of IND points to a space, and the upright o f the ‘P‘ of IMP points to a tooth.

Obv 8 - The upright of ‘R‘ in Georgivs points to a tooth, the upright of the ‘D‘ of D:G points to a space, the upright of ‘E‘ of Rex points to a tooth, and the upright of ‘I‘ of IMP points to a space.

Obv 9 - The upright of the ‘E‘ in Georgivs points to a space, the right hand upright of the ‘N‘ of OMN points to a space, the upright of the ‘R‘ of Rex points to a space, and the upright of ‘F‘ of F:D points to a tooth.

Obv 10 - The upright of the ‘E‘ in Georgivs points to tooth, the upright of ‘I‘ of VI points to a tooth, the upright of ‘F‘ of F:D points to a space, and the upright of ‘D‘ of IND points to a space.

There are 7 minor varieties for the 1937 Proof £2 coins. Additionally, obverses 3 and 4 come with and without detached upper dragon's paws.

For 1902, there are examples with the initials DeS and the start of the legend double struck, whilst the matt proof £5 has two date spacings: 7mm or 7.5 mm wide.

[shagreen 24]

Excellent DaveG38, is this your own research? very interesting to me at least. Do you know of any other minor variations in predecimal 20thC proofs? I have heard of the 1935 jubillee crown reverse having some variations but cant locate the reference.

[Gary1000 41]

Excellent DaveG38, is this your own research? very interesting to me at least. Do you know of any other minor variations in predecimal 20thC proofs? I have heard of the 1935 jubillee crown reverse having some variations but cant locate the reference.

Davies quote two reverse varieties for the 1935 crown but I've only ever seen the one type.

[Peckris 579]

Excellent DaveG38, is this your own research? very interesting to me at least. Do you know of any other minor variations in predecimal 20thC proofs? I have heard of the 1935 jubillee crown reverse having some variations but cant locate the reference.

Davies quote two reverse varieties for the 1935 crown but I've only ever seen the one type.

I just consulted Davies - from his illustrations this looks one of the most trivial micro-varieties ever IF that pointing is the only difference. I can't believe that the average completist would be that interested?

[sound 25]

I've been considering my library lately and how up to date the reference material is with regards to varieties.

For post 1860 bronze Michael Freeman's books seem to be the standard.

For post 1860 pennies it seems like Michael Gouby's books are the most comprehensive, though the Gouby X variety isn't in any of his books.

For the silver Peter Davies' British Silver Coins Since 1816 seems to be the most comprehensive book.

For the half sovereign and sovereign Michael Marsh's books seem to be the most comprehensive.

For the two and five pound pieces I'm not sure of any books that cover them.

Is what I have the best with regards to coverage of varieties? I think David Groome's books might have more varieties covered but I understand they're 20th century only.

And are there any books that covers two and five pound pieces?

Mr T,

Going back to your original question. Your selection seems about right. I would add the dated but good '' English Silver Coinage' as a cross reference. It's History of milled coinage at the beginning is excellent. Incidentally Spink have advised it will soon be updated and reproduced.

Mark

[Mr T 169]

Interesting - do you remember what these 1902 and 1937 varieties are?

I wouldn't have though there'd be any varieties either though I recall someone here saying a while back that the 1887 £5 (I think) dies struck on average 127 or so coins each (and I think that was for the currency coins too).

For 1937 there are 10 (yes 10) obverse types:

Good grief, looks like the Royal Mint didn't put any effort into improving the production of the poor old £5 coin. Fascinating all the same.

I've been considering my library lately and how up to date the reference material is with regards to varieties.

For post 1860 bronze Michael Freeman's books seem to be the standard.

For post 1860 pennies it seems like Michael Gouby's books are the most comprehensive, though the Gouby X variety isn't in any of his books.

For the silver Peter Davies' British Silver Coins Since 1816 seems to be the most comprehensive book.

For the half sovereign and sovereign Michael Marsh's books seem to be the most comprehensive.

For the two and five pound pieces I'm not sure of any books that cover them.

Is what I have the best with regards to coverage of varieties? I think David Groome's books might have more varieties covered but I understand they're 20th century only.

And are there any books that covers two and five pound pieces?

Mr T,

Going back to your original question. Your selection seems about right. I would add the dated but good '' English Silver Coinage' as a cross reference. It's History of milled coinage at the beginning is excellent. Incidentally Spink have advised it will soon be updated and reproduced.

Mark

Thanks Mark, I do have English Silver Coinage though it is a little out dated as you say. I suppose here is as good a place as any to hear about interesting new discoveries then?

[Mr T 169]

Oh, and the Jerrams book on pennies is even more up-to-date than the Gouby book is it? And is the reference to Satin at http://www.predecimal.com/forum/topic/5500-1937-penny-die-variations/page-2#entry44914 yet another book?

[Mr T 169]

Okay, never mind, I found the answer here: http://www.predecimal.com/forum/topic/4687-whowhat-is-satin/