Hammered Conditions

[Geordie582 18]

Am I peculiar because I think that the striving for the perfect, uncirculated hammered coin is missing the point of collecting historical coins? I want some wear in a coin, because I revel in handling a used coin, thinking of all the people that could have used it. It's history made real. The craving for pieces of metal straight from manufacture is an anathema to me. To each his own. I can understand the aim to get Mint milled but I regard them as just medals advertising the mint!

Discus.

[Rob 2,996]

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F9%2F97%2FDiscus_Thrower_Copenhagen.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FDiscus_throw&h=1944&w=1944&tbnid=2eg6y8xiypLk0M%3A&zoom=1&docid=S8sXG4HCLT7xLM&ei=c4AuVM6QHc_TaK7YgJgG&tbm=isch&client=firefox-a&ved=0CEUQMygLMAs&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=990&page=1&start=0&ndsp=35

[Peter 615]

I'm not bothered with as struck hammered.

I go for eye appeal every time.

I like nice round coins with as few flat spots as possible

I also like to ID them,even cut pennies.

Keeps me off the streets.

[Rob 2,996]

It depends on whether you appreciate the handiwork of the engraver or not. If you want to see the full qualities of the craftsman, then you need to see coins in high grade. If you just want an example of a type, then it obviously doesn't matter what the condition is.

If you are an avid afficionado of washers, RS do boxes of 250 starting at £1.10 + VAT.

[pokal02 43]

It's a trade off between desirability and price (although I go along with the view that imagining the coin's circulation is part of the attraction, so wouldn't collect hammered/early milled much above VF even with unlimited funds). I'd rather have two different coins in GF-NVF than one in VF, some will prefer one in VF, others four in AF-F. I try to avoid damaged milled coins but will turn a blind eye to a minor chip/crack or whatever on a hammered coin, provided I consider the damage is reflected in the asking price.

[azda 973]

I must admit, finding a high grade hammered in VF or above pretty satisfying, personally i don't think there is such a thing as an UNC hammered, EF is as far as i'd say they'd go in terms of grading

[Peckris 579]

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F9%2F97%2FDiscus_Thrower_Copenhagen.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FDiscus_throw&h=1944&w=1944&tbnid=2eg6y8xiypLk0M%3A&zoom=1&docid=S8sXG4HCLT7xLM&ei=c4AuVM6QHc_TaK7YgJgG&tbm=isch&client=firefox-a&ved=0CEUQMygLMAs&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=990&page=1&start=0&ndsp=35

[TomGoodheart 373]

I don't have any perfect coins. And I don't collect 'fine work' pieces because I find them too perfect ... yes, I know they show more detail than the currency issues, but to me money was meant to be spent.

Now that doesn't stop me from looking for better condition pieces. I have several that are probably very much 'as struck'. Apart from the fact that I'd prefer them to have some toning then I'm happy with them. None is perfectly round or deep or crisp or even (sorry .. winter is coming!)

But I also enjoy some quirkiness. That's why later milled isn't for me. It all looks pretty much the same to me.

So for hammered I have a 'wish list'. A broad round flan, so the edge beading shows. Even thickness, so the majority of the design is picked up. Full weight, so I know it's not been clipped. And ideally, some old toning.

Where there are weaknesses I am more forgiving if they are on the reverse than to the King's portrait, or the legends rather than the design. But I do insist on a reasonable privy mark - on at least one side!

Mostly it's a balancing act. It's difficult (and generally expensive) aiming for everything. So I try to find a reasonable mix of the above although which is most important on a particular day is likely to vary with my mood.

I showed off my latest buy before but here it is again. About as close to perfection for that bust design and mint mark as I am likely to find within my budget, or likely to want really ...

Are you peculiar Geordie? No, I don't think so. The variability and 'handmade-edness' of hammered coins is what makes them attractive to me. Though like Peter, I aim for eye-appeal. But what makes a coin appealing probably varies from one collector to another... which I guess is probably a good thing!

Edited October 3, 2014 by TomGoodheart

[Geordie582 18]

I guess most of you guys would be left cold by this, whereas I spend lots of time wondering why the moneyer was so careless. Was it during conflict perhaps? Or because he was fulfilling some massive order for a ransom or payment for extra mercenaries? The possibilities are better than the cinema!

[Geordie582 18]

They don't have to be British to get the imagination going! I think this one must have been recovered from a shrine because it has been 'killed' as an offering. Gets you wondering what the donor was asking for!!

[TomGoodheart 373]

I guess most of you guys would be left cold by this, whereas I spend lots of time wondering why the moneyer was so careless. Was it during conflict perhaps? Or because he was fulfilling some massive order for a ransom or payment for extra mercenaries? The possibilities are better than the cinema!

LOL I can see the numismatic and historic appeal Geordie. But I guess my tastes are a bit more prosaic in that I like my coins to look pretty too!

So I'd probably go for something a bit more centrally struck. Plus I do rather like a portrait coin as I like to get an image (albeit probably looking nothing like the actual person) of the King or Queen in question in my mind.

Of course, later hammered shillings are my thing. Bit bigger than pennies. For example I was looking at this:

Double struck (just says CHRIS on the reverse where it should read CHRISTO), scratched, the legend on the obverse falls over the King's crown. Was it struck after lunch and a few ales? In a hurry?

Quite a few scratches and dints too, but the design is clear, the coin is circular and full and it's nicely toned. It's clearly (to me) a circulated coin that has been carried in a purse and spent before being hidden away or lost. But it's still got 'eye appeal' to me.

I don't suppose it would interest Rob or Geoff at all. Others might well think of it as the centrepiece of a collection if it were theirs. Everyone is different. I don't think there's a 'right' or 'wrong' way to collect so long as you enjoy what you have. I just don't think struggling to identify Tealby pennies would amuse me any more than trying to decide if a Vicky florin is Davies 3 or 4 .. I like what I like.

You clearly enjoy the history of the coins you own, puzzling out why they are the way they are and what might have happened to them and whose hands they passed through. I get that. It's certainly more interesting to me than proofs and MSwhatevers! Just I think I prefer my coins as 'objects d'art' to doors to the imagination! If that makes sense?

.

.

[TomGoodheart 373]

Though oddly I really like this:



Not despite but because someone has smoothed the reverse and engraved it.

Making it no longer a coin but .. a personal talisman of sorts.

So I guess my imagination can be sparked by some things!

[Geordie582 18]

I empathise with all the opinions expressed here but the constant 'pretty' output from the RM made me stop collecting milled a long time ago. I still prefer the Newark ninepence to the Charles shilling, probably for romantic reasons!! My Berwick offcentre conjures up mass panic of besieged armies and the 'killed' antoninianus conjures a desperate Roman soldiers pleas. Looking though my collection I can create a wealth of possibilities!!

[Geordie582 18]

I would collect Charles siege pieces but financial constraints prevent this

[scott 129]

lovely hammered in high grades but I like the history of a worn piece

[damian1986 142]

I want them all to be this good. £3,600 plus commission

Below is an E1 penny 1c/1a mule. Quite a bit of wear and the edge chip but overall decent and I'm really happy with it, but still got pushed quite a bit on price to get it.

1. When's a nicer one going to come into auction?
2. A real gem is gonna cost what, 400 / 500 quid? Well it shouldn't but anything real high quality seems to be getting caned in the auctions at the minute.

So we don't have much choice

[Peter 615]

Damian

That is a fantastic coin.

£3.6 + juice for an Ed1 London WOW

[damian1986 142]

Damian

That is a fantastic coin.

£3.6 + juice for an Ed1 London WOW

I never know with your sense of humour Peter.

£3.6k for the William I penny...

[Geordie582 18]

£3.6k? Oh! Dear! So near - so far!

£22.75 (no K)

Edited October 4, 2014 by Geordie582

[TomGoodheart 373]

I would collect Charles siege pieces but financial constraints prevent this

Quite. We all have to work within a budget.

If I'd had more spare cash then I'd have happily bought the Newark. Likely it would have pride of place amongst my little collection of amulets and talismans I've made or picked up here and there!.

But .. heck, based on the last few purchases, I could have bought half a dozen coins for the price! There was no way I could justify what would effectively have been a new collecting theme to myself. I balanced adding to my main collection with a fun novelty and the collection won.

I guess the day I can find nothing that appeals within my budget might yet come. At that point I'll have some serious thinking to do about where to go from there.

I like the idea that Geordie could no doubt keep a room full of people spellbound with stories of where his coins have been and the uses they were put to.

[Peter 615]

Damian

That is a fantastic coin.

£3.6 + juice for an Ed1 London WOW

I never know with your sense of humour Peter.

£3.6k for the William I penny...

Nice score Geordie was the blue tack extra.

I must have 10 Bury mint ED 1,2 & 3 and I'm still not happy

You are right quality costs

Over £4k for the William I cannot justify (I have a Lotus Elan on my shopping list to put in the garage with my MG)

[Coinery 926]

lovely hammered in high grades but I like the history of a worn piece

Would hardly call that worn, Scott? Nice coin!

[Coinery 926]

Though oddly I really like this:

Newark Ninepence.jpg

Not despite but because someone has smoothed the reverse and engraved it.

Making it no longer a coin but .. a personal talisman of sorts.

So I guess my imagination can be sparked by some things!

I love it!

[Peter 615]

The Newark was used for shove-ninepence by Charlie himself

[Coinery 926]

The Newark was used for shove-ninepence by Charlie himself

That's rubbish! He used to dip it in mead and dangle it over Henrietta's chest during court parties...the fairest skin in all the land!