Dont read this if you have not slabbed a cgs coin

[TomGoodheart 373]

Nice coin tom what approx value would that be.

Thanks. To be honest, I'm finding it difficult to second guess prices in the current market. Little material about and much of it mediocre with the occasional daft price being paid for better pieces! But I'd hope on a good day between £150-£200 ... if the lop-sided flan doesn't put people off.

Vicky silver the coin you posted does not look the best,is that also an active verd spot?

I'm assuming that's post-slabbing? Bit worrying ...

And yes, since silver coins are not 100% silver the small amounts of copper in the mix can in theory result in verdegris.

Though I don't believe it can spread beyond the copper to the rest of the coin AFAIK.

.

Edited September 7, 2014 by TomGoodheart

[PWA 1967 1,839]

Hi tom ,must be worth having slabbed.The small cost may give you a better idea.I dont have a clue were you live ,you can drop the coin off at one of the shows and pick it up at a later date to save on the postage.I only buy pennies but can you get verd on silver or any other metal?

[TomGoodheart 373]

Verdegris on a silver coin (top of the reverse):



Though as far as I know you're right that verdegris shouldn't form on precious metal coins. I'm guessing that since it's a copper salt, it's not actually on the silver, but an area of over-concentrated copper in the alloy.

Edited September 7, 2014 by TomGoodheart

[coinkat 21]

Interesting read... Being on the other side of the pond, my collective thoughts are based on my experience in coins which dates back to the Nixon Administration. US collectors and the US Coin Market in general has accepted the Sheldon scale and it is just different than the grading standards in the UK. Consistency is critical in grading and that seems to be the challenge-especially evaluating coin series, the variation in dies, the strike and accepting that not all coins even from the same date and denomination are created equal. Somve e collectors are willing to pay more for coins that represent real quality for the grade. And that is often reflected by auction prices realized for coins graded by either PCGS or NGC. I have not followed how well CGS coins have fared at auction. I suspect that there remains a reluctance of slabbed coins in the UK for numerous reasons-Some seem to be well founded and others less so.

TPG has its place for condition rarities as well as rarities for authentication purposes. There is some benefit to having slabbed coins. However, it really does not help with lower grade coins or those with a limited value.

As others have pointed out, coin collecting has a side that is based on hype, telemarketing and even something that I often refer to as "the greater fool theory"... The US coin market is different in terms how coins are promoted, valued and sold. I do not see that changing as to US Coins. With World coins, there seems to be a growing interest which is being driven more by external factors and that will continue. More coins, especially quality world coins will ultimately be graded as it adds to liquidity and consignment options.

[TomGoodheart 373]

I can't fault any of that coinkat. To me the UK market appears to be moving away from the varieties and scarcities in any condition towards everyone wanting better condition as well. This makes grade more important.

Trouble is, most hammered and early milled coins weren't consistent in how they left the mint making it a challenge to determine what's wear and what's down to the quality of the strike. I'd argue that makes a large proportion of 'classic' coins that attracted collectors of the past unsuited to third part grading. I worry that this will make such series less 'collectable' in the future.

There also seems to be an expectation about prices (at least on eBay) for slabbed examples of such coins which may be%2

Edited September 7, 2014 by TomGoodheart

[DaveG38 385]

Interesting read... Being on the other side of the pond, my collective thoughts are based on my experience in coins which dates back to the Nixon Administration. US collectors and the US Coin Market in general has accepted the Sheldon scale and it is just different than the grading standards in the UK. Consistency is critical in grading and that seems to be the challenge-especially evaluating coin series, the variation in dies, the strike and accepting that not all coins even from the same date and denomination are created equal. Somve e collectors are willing to pay more for coins that represent real quality for the grade. And that is often reflected by auction prices realized for coins graded by either PCGS or NGC. I have not followed how well CGS coins have fared at auction. I suspect that there remains a reluctance of slabbed coins in the UK for numerous reasons-Some seem to be well founded and others less so.

TPG has its place for condition rarities as well as rarities for authentication purposes. There is some benefit to having slabbed coins. However, it really does not help with lower grade coins or those with a limited value.

As others have pointed out, coin collecting has a side that is based on hype, telemarketing and even something that I often refer to as "the greater fool theory"... The US coin market is different in terms how coins are promoted, valued and sold. I do not see that changing as to US Coins. With World coins, there seems to be a growing interest which is being driven more by external factors and that will continue. More coins, especially quality world coins will ultimately be graded as it adds to liquidity and consignment options.

I only have one slabbed CGS coin, a 2014 sovereign, bought mainly for it's bullion value, not as a numismatic purchase particularly. The price was no greater than the bullion value at that time, so from this I conclude that there would be little additional value in slabbing very modern coins, as there doesn't seem to be a premium for this service. It is, however, just one example.

[coinkat 21]

Tom;

i agree with your observations-especially about the consistency in strike/quality. Obviously, it is a huge problem with Hammered coins. It also is a problem with early milled coins. We have the hindsight benefit of looking back, more often than not, with a critical eye that does not account for production. As you know, flecking and hay marks can appear on milled coins from Charles II even up through George II. Instead of these coins being a piece of numismatic history, most collectors will not have anything to do with such coins. So in part, the problem over time is being an issue of expectations. And the expectations seem to be moving higher to a standard that cannot possibly be met.

Going back to a concern you expressed in terms of grading and distinguishing between wear and the quality of the strike, with milled coins one can always take a good look at the fields and the high points on the design/portrait and look for lustre breaks. Also, within the series, one can and should develop an appreciation for the dies, the quality of the strike by dates and the grade range for the surviving population. The Edward VII Shillings or even the Florins serve to illustrate the points. For the most part, the strikes are not of a high quality and the portrait of Edward VII is weak as a general rule. With the exception of 1902 and 1910, these can be deceptively difficult to find in MS-especially one that is well struck. These coins were spent and not many were saved which is why monitoring the surviving population tells the story over the mintage figures. Ancients were the rage during this time and even finding quality Canadian and US coins from the 1902 -1910 time frame seems to be an equal challenge.

[PWA 1967 1,839]

One point i feel worth mentioning .Had a couple of coins slabbed recently both graded 85 however do not feel the photographs do the coins justice.Only a slight moan but would think they could do better.

[Paulus 1,942]

One point i feel worth mentioning .Had a couple of coins slabbed recently both graded 85 however do not feel the photographs do the coins justice.Only a slight moan but would think they could do better.

Completely agree with that. Their current pics are much better than they were in the early years, but I have seen their set up (last year), it is just a single 'desk lamp' illuminating the subject, and there only seem to be 2 pics taken (none of the edge or close-ups of overdates etc)

[PWA 1967 1,839]

Just sent an 1869 penny for grading it is uin 33297 hope it gets ef grade.Would like a better one but this will do for now

[PWA 1967 1,839]

Coin got rejected for rusty dies ,however the seller spot on and a full refund.Will keep looking for a good one

[Coinery 926]

Coin got rejected for rusty dies ,however the seller spot on and a full refund.Will keep looking for a good one

Wow, I honestly don't understand that at all! I don't see what the state of the die itself has to do with a CGS success or not? Thanks for the update, though, PWA!

[Paulus 1,942]

The CGS site just says 'Field Damage', did they give you more detail PWA?

[Rob 2,996]

That's stupid. Rusted dies has nothing to do with the authenticity, wear, handling damage or any other reason for rejection. On that basis it will be impossible to slab a P1161 for example because it was one of Taylor's earliest products struck from completely rusted dies prior to their polishing and refurbishment.

That also means in their eyes I've got a mint state but worthless piece of sh*te that I paid good money for.

They would probably end up suffering cardiac arrest if they got this angel for slabbing. Apologies for the reduced flan to keep it under 500k.

[PWA 1967 1,839]

I bought the coin from a dealer ,he was happy if the coin and if rejected he would return my money.When the coin was rejected i gave them a quick ring and no problem although he was surprised.It was rejected on the surface of the planchet having deterioration ,through rusty dies. I learned a lot from the conversation with the graders.I understand everyone has an opinion.My main concern is leaving a collection for someone that is ok.and am learning everyday .Might be good if someone can put the pictures up.If any comments are made i will respond with the answers they gave me

[Paulus 1,942]

Here are the CGS pics:

[PWA 1967 1,839]

Thank you paulus , although not the best grade would be interested in the rejection .I have no problem but would like the forums imput

[Rob 2,996]

It has to be on the basis of surface corrosion rather than rusted dies. If the latter, then, as I said, some varieties are unable to be slabbed, which sort of negates the rationale for doing so. It would mean any raised rust spot would mean rejection. Most of the Soho patterns would be rejected.

[PWA 1967 1,839]

Corrosion is classed as different rob and another reason for rejection.Thanks for the cats again

[copper123 1,352]

I can find very little that would stop that 1869 penny from being slabbed.

Its near EF but looks like a slightly weak strike

[azda 973]

Effing ridiculous in my opinion, elitest bullshit, sorry but i would have Kept that

[Coinery 926]

At what point would a cracked die fail the CGS criteria for slabbing?

I don't know why I tie myself into a tense knot over these things?

OK, I'm better now and moving on!

[copper123 1,352]

Is that a small corrosion patch on the top near Brittania's helmet ?something is going on around there but I could not be sure without having the coin in hand

[RLC35 288]

Is that a small corrosion patch on the top near Brittania's helmet ?something is going on around there but I could not be sure without having the coin in hand

I noticed that also Copper. That is probably the reason for the rejection. Still, a very nice example.

Edited November 1, 2014 by RLC35

[Coinery 926]

Is that a small corrosion patch on the top near Brittania's helmet ?something is going on around there but I could not be sure without having the coin in hand

I noticed that also Copper. That is probably the reason for the rejection. Still, a very nice example.

Flan corrosion and die corrosion are altogether different beasts entirely, as we all know!

Now I'm done, I promise!