Tgp - Good And The Bad

[brg5658 111]

Yes, I agree with that. PCGS is a bit on the stick as David Hall, a principle in the firm, also sells PCGS coins though they are US coins.

No connection to Brit coins that I am aware of. One of the main graders at PCGS is/was (I do not have confirmation of his current status) Karl Stephens. I know that they seem to indicate that up to three graders look at a particular coin there but am unaware of any other graders.

Are you sure about that? I believe Karl may be one of the experts on retainer for specific questions on difficult coins, but I have never heard that he was a grader at PCGS. His biography on his website also mentions nothing of this sort. Not to mention that the vast majority of the offerings on his PDF lists are raw material, with only occasional PCGS and NGC graded world material. I would be very surprised if Karl was ever a regular grader at PCGS.

[VickySilver 775]

He has been involved in grading Brit rarities and has been the main opinion. I don't know what his technical title was or is.

Edited January 20, 2014 by VickySilver

[Exbrit 78]

I agree with brg5658 regarding NGC for most non-US coins. One exception may be Sovereigns - at least those from Australia. The Aussies seem to favor PCGS according to a few of their experts.

[Peckris 579]

Now this guy Speaks sense

Funny you quote this guy. He is one of the most skeazy and unrespected dealers in the USA market.

Maybe your opinions of him and his thoughts will change when viewing his website, with laughable asking prices (look at this one which SOLD!!!: http://www.randicoins.com/store/pc/SOLD-1948-P-FRANKLIN-NGC-MS-68-STAR-FBL-6p1147.htm).

That coin is a crazy example of AT and shame on both seller and buyer (the latter with more money than sense). Nevertheless, on that particular video the man DOES talk sense. What is the slightest bit controversial or unreasonable about (1) buying the coin not the slab or number, and (2) pointing out inconsistencies in grading due to damage inflicted before slabbing that hadn't yet shown up during the slabbing process?

[brg5658 111]

Now this guy Speaks sense

Funny you quote this guy. He is one of the most skeazy and unrespected dealers in the USA market.

Maybe your opinions of him and his thoughts will change when viewing his website, with laughable asking prices (look at this one which SOLD!!!: http://www.randicoins.com/store/pc/SOLD-1948-P-FRANKLIN-NGC-MS-68-STAR-FBL-6p1147.htm).

That coin is a crazy example of AT and shame on both seller and buyer (the latter with more money than sense). Nevertheless, on that particular video the man DOES talk sense. What is the slightest bit controversial or unreasonable about (1) buying the coin not the slab or number, and (2) pointing out inconsistencies in grading due to damage inflicted before slabbing that hadn't yet shown up during the slabbing process?

Is the video taken at face value controversial or unreasonable? No, not at all! But, there is also nothing profound or novel about it.

Knowing who Rick Tomaska is, I see the video as nothing more than his normal drivel encouraging people to buy only the supposed "one of a kind" coins that he has in his inventory. Or phrased another way, his way of trying to justify the absolutely absurd asking prices of many of the coins in his inventory. I don't need a greasy haired "car-salesman-type" dealer to tell me what to look for in a coin. Especially a dealer whose entire business model is to fleece people for coins that are over-hyped and often unsightly. That was my point -- I found it rather ironic that the poster-child for someone who was "speaking truth" was someone of such ill-repute as this.

[Peckris 579]

Now this guy Speaks sense

Funny you quote this guy. He is one of the most skeazy and unrespected dealers in the USA market.

Maybe your opinions of him and his thoughts will change when viewing his website, with laughable asking prices (look at this one which SOLD!!!: http://www.randicoins.com/store/pc/SOLD-1948-P-FRANKLIN-NGC-MS-68-STAR-FBL-6p1147.htm).

That coin is a crazy example of AT and shame on both seller and buyer (the latter with more money than sense). Nevertheless, on that particular video the man DOES talk sense. What is the slightest bit controversial or unreasonable about (1) buying the coin not the slab or number, and (2) pointing out inconsistencies in grading due to damage inflicted before slabbing that hadn't yet shown up during the slabbing process?

Is the video taken at face value controversial or unreasonable? No, not at all! But, there is also nothing profound or novel about it.

Knowing who Rick Tomaska is, I see the video as nothing more than his normal drivel encouraging people to buy only the supposed "one of a kind" coins that he has in his inventory. Or phrased another way, his way of trying to justify the absolutely absurd asking prices of many of the coins in his inventory. I don't need a greasy haired "car-salesman-type" dealer to tell me what to look for in a coin. Especially a dealer whose entire business model is to fleece people for coins that are over-hyped and often unsightly. That was my point -- I found it rather ironic that the poster-child for someone who was "speaking truth" was someone of such ill-repute as this.

YOU saw that, based on prior knowledge. I didn't see it at all - I saw a commonsense tutorial on buying coins that, despite not being 'profound or novel', seems to be a lesson that some of your countrymen still need to learn. However, you have warned me off that individual as a dealer, and for that I thank you.

[azda 973]

Now this guy Speaks sense

Funny you quote this guy. He is one of the most skeazy and unrespected dealers in the USA market.

Maybe your opinions of him and his thoughts will change when viewing his website, with laughable asking prices (look at this one which SOLD!!!: http://www.randicoins.com/store/pc/SOLD-1948-P-FRANKLIN-NGC-MS-68-STAR-FBL-6p1147.htm).

Ermmmm i did'nt have any opinion of him personally. What i quoted was his youtube Video where he states "buy the coin not the grade" i think you'll just always try and take a little stab at whatever i say. Your obvious Dislike for me really is getting on my titties. I give up with you. Edited January 21, 2014 by azda

[azda 973]

Now this guy Speaks sense

Funny you quote this guy. He is one of the most skeazy and unrespected dealers in the USA market.

Maybe your opinions of him and his thoughts will change when viewing his website, with laughable asking prices (look at this one which SOLD!!!: http://www.randicoins.com/store/pc/SOLD-1948-P-FRANKLIN-NGC-MS-68-STAR-FBL-6p1147.htm).

That coin is a crazy example of AT and shame on both seller and buyer (the latter with more money than sense). Nevertheless, on that particular video the man DOES talk sense. What is the slightest bit controversial or unreasonable about (1) buying the coin not the slab or number, and (2) pointing out inconsistencies in grading due to damage inflicted before slabbing that hadn't yet shown up during the slabbing process?

Is the video taken at face value controversial or unreasonable? No, not at all! But, there is also nothing profound or novel about it.

Knowing who Rick Tomaska is, I see the video as nothing more than his normal drivel encouraging people to buy only the supposed "one of a kind" coins that he has in his inventory. Or phrased another way, his way of trying to justify the absolutely absurd asking prices of many of the coins in his inventory. I don't need a greasy haired "car-salesman-type" dealer to tell me what to look for in a coin. Especially a dealer whose entire business model is to fleece people for coins that are over-hyped and often unsightly. That was my point -- I found it rather ironic that the poster-child for someone who was "speaking truth" was someone of such ill-repute as this.

YOU saw that, based on prior knowledge. I didn't see it at all - I saw a commonsense tutorial on buying coins that, despite not being 'profound or novel', seems to be a lesson that some of your countrymen still need to learn. However, you have warned me off that individual as a dealer, and for that I thank you.

Lol,i uploaded it because of what the guys said on the Video Peck, i'm not sure why bgr. seems to have problems with what he says, i can only agree with his philosaphy of buy the coin not the grade. Iw as listening to his words and not checking his website. So can't understand brg comments, he just seems to be ALWAYS defeding in one breath because its his countrymen and picking holes because he's allowed too and we're not. Whatever it is, i give up with this guy. To much tippy toeing when he's around

[VickySilver 775]

Actually, on "commercial" infomercial TV there are shows in the US like "Coin Vault", and the rival show (forgot the name) that Tomaska appears on, and they apparently sell many tens of thousands of pounds worth of coins on nearly a daily basis. Mostly Morgan dollars, and bullion with the occasional Britannia or Libertad or Panda thrown in. These are frequently slabbed.

One of the experts is Tomaska, who has indeed written some books on scarcity and value of later dated US coins including proofs. It is actually quite comical and worth a look if you have the chance for a good laugh or two. Shameless huckstering with a bit of Texas polish to boot.

That having been said, I don't have a problem with Dave's video and think although basic should be required tutorial for beginning buyers of slabbed bits.

[brg5658 111]

Since one member here likes to play the "victim" card at all times, I will refrain from posting my informed US TPG opinions in this thread anymore.

Before I leave this "discussion", I will just disclose that over the past 5-7 years I have viewed thousands of PCGS and NGC graded coins in hand. My current collection, along with many raw coins, includes just north of 650 slabbed coins by these two companies. I do not believe they are infallible, nor do I believe any dealer posting his grades for a coin in his case or on his website is infallible. I look at the coin, grade it for myself, and determine how much I am willing to pay.

With regard to the "victim": to have such strong opinions about something when you know little to nothing of it is comical. Notice that I don't have strong opinions for or against CGS as I have no experience with them. It is not a matter of a "personal vendetta" or "stalking" (which I have been accused of); it is a matter of facts. Just one or two members in particular here seem to want to spout off about things that they obviously don't know much about. It seems we were just down this road a few weeks ago...sigh. Alas, I am your guest on this British website, so I will let this thread be -- mis-truths and all.

And, for the record (since facts are king), NGC doesn't grade coins while still in their plastic flips. Which, if you actually watch the video that was posted, is made abundantly clear at 1:39, 1:52, and 2:51 when graders are handling coins outside of the plastic flips.

Cheers.

[Nick 325]

Since one member here likes to play the "victim" card at all times, I will refrain from posting my informed US TPG opinions in this thread anymore.

Before I leave this "discussion", I will just disclose that over the past 5-7 years I have viewed thousands of PCGS and NGC graded coins in hand. My current collection, along with many raw coins, includes just north of 650 slabbed coins by these two companies. I do not believe they are infallible, nor do I believe any dealer posting his grades for a coin in his case or on his website is infallible. I look at the coin, grade it for myself, and determine how much I am willing to pay.

With regard to the "victim": to have such strong opinions about something when you know little to nothing of it is comical. Notice that I don't have strong opinions for or against CGS as I have no experience with them. It is not a matter of a "personal vendetta" or "stalking" (which I have been accused of); it is a matter of facts. Just one or two members in particular here seem to want to spout off about things that they obviously don't know much about. It seems we were just down this road a few weeks ago...sigh. Alas, I am your guest on this British website, so I will let this thread be -- mis-truths and all.

And, for the record (since facts are king), NGC doesn't grade coins while still in their plastic flips. Which, if you actually watch the video that was posted, is made abundantly clear at 1:39, 1:52, and 2:51 when graders are handling coins outside of the plastic flips.

Cheers.

I do hope this isn't an empty threat.

Edited January 21, 2014 by Nick

[Coinery 926]

I do wish, as TGH said, that this, and all debates associated with it, could be moved to a separate area, just so I, and probably a fair few others by now, could ignore it in the full confidence we haven't missed anything of numismatic value!

For any future visitor, new to the idea of TPG, they can read just 2 pages ( at a push) and be fully conversant with just about every aspect of the subject!

Understanding the rights and wrongs of TPG does not add one iota to our understanding or, more importantly, the coin inside! Once that is understood by newbies, or serious collector alike, the whole process fades into nothing other than something to laugh at, or abuse!

I'm done!

Edit: except, maybe, that I do find you rather full-on, BRG, but then I'm guessing you already know that!

Edited January 21, 2014 by Coinery

[Paulus 1,942]

Yes, Admins, perhaps we could have a Subforum under 'Other Coin related forums' called something like 'Third Party Grading (TPG) Services'?

[Sword 1,330]

I would also support TPG discussions to be moved elsewhere.

Debating this topic every couple of months doesn't do any good to the harmony of the forum. It is just about the only discussion topic that can make people fall out.

[Rob 3,000]

Add this to the sub-forum please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

[Paulus 1,942]

Add this to the sub-forum please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

well diffused Rob

Edited January 21, 2014 by Paulus

[Coinery 926]

Add this to the sub-forum please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

Classic!

[Peckris 579]

Add this to the sub-forum please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

Classic!

No it isn't.

[Coinery 926]

Add this to the sub-forum please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

Classic!

No it isn't.

Why don't you just...oh, sorry, wrong room!

[Peckris 579]

Add this to the sub-forum please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

Classic!

No it isn't.

Why don't you just...oh, sorry, wrong room!

You loon-faced, unsavoury, evil-smelling heap of dog turd, why don't you just crawl back under the rock you ... oh sorry, time's up.

[declanwmagee 122]

Oh, but this is abuse...

what a stupid concept.

[TomGoodheart 373]

So now NGC have decided to expand their Star grading to World coins: http://www.ngccoin.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?IDArticle=3798&Star-designation

Shame they chose some shit ugly coins to advertise the fact then, no?

[TomGoodheart 373]

And where's the 'flogging a dead horse' smiley when you need it???

[Rob 3,000]

So now NGC have decided to expand their Star grading to World coins: http://www.ngccoin.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?IDArticle=3798&Star-designation

Shame they chose some shit ugly coins to advertise the fact then, no?

Another unquantifiable designation. Some like brilliant untoned coins, others hate them. Some like toning, others don't. Someone is going to be disappointed with the 'eye of the beholder' qualification.

[Peckris 579]

And where's the 'flogging a dead horse' smiley when you need it???