Pcgs Vs Cgs

[azda 973]

Is Scottish Money a moderator here? I didn't know that!

No apologies needed whatsoever on my account!

An' me avatar is wee better lookin' 'han yours twa.

Yous twa

[Peckris 579]

Chris, as i wrote in my previous post. It's Been the American gentleman who is getting confrontational. His 21 days here has been littered with posts having a dig at me and on this thread where i'm told my advice is "i'll-informed to his well-informed opinion" was the starw that broke the camels back.

In every thread i've so far commented on in the past few weeks there has been an underlying goading from him and if you look again at the ebay laughs thread he's again commented. So for this reason i've decided to leave the forum, i cannot understand how you can say i'm confrontational, i've used potty language but this has been after several weeks of his underlying problem with me with commemts like "i'm always negative" and "i'll-informed advice"

I did apologies to the forum, but not to that ass in question. Thanks for all the laughs and great info guys but i can't hang around while this idiot is on here or else i won't be able to keep my tongue quiet. Ciao

Dave, you've just had a spat with another forum member. It happens! You and I have fallen out in the past but always made it up (or so you think .. ). I don't see that's any reason to leave. Take a few deep breaths and count to 11.

Besides, if you leave, who am I gonna insult from now on???

[azda 973]

Chris, as i wrote in my previous post. It's Been the American gentleman who is getting confrontational. His 21 days here has been littered with posts having a dig at me and on this thread where i'm told my advice is "i'll-informed to his well-informed opinion" was the starw that broke the camels back.

In every thread i've so far commented on in the past few weeks there has been an underlying goading from him and if you look again at the ebay laughs thread he's again commented. So for this reason i've decided to leave the forum, i cannot understand how you can say i'm confrontational, i've used potty language but this has been after several weeks of his underlying problem with me with commemts like "i'm always negative" and "i'll-informed advice"

I did apologies to the forum, but not to that ass in question. Thanks for all the laughs and great info guys but i can't hang around while this idiot is on here or else i won't be able to keep my tongue quiet. Ciao

Dave, you've just had a spat with another forum member. It happens! You and I have fallen out in the past but always made it up (or so you think .. ). I don't see that's any reason to leave. Take a few deep breaths and count to 11.

Besides, if you leave, who am I gonna insult from now on???

There is the difference Peck, this numpty is making out that because i've made comments againts American TPGs he's trying to make it into a racist issue. He's also on the coincommunity Forum and is obviously a big fan of American TPGs and we all know how those darn Americans will defend those TPGs to the hilt because what they say is Gospel. He's been at this for "several weeks" and just yesterday or the day before on the Topic he started "Show us your bronze and copper" thread he uploaded at Viccy 4d and in the description he said lets see which hater blah blah blah, now unfortunately either Chris or Scottishmoney has deleted this post but it just Shows which direction he's taking and if you have ANYTHING against PCGS or NGC and voice your opinion about them then you'd better watch out.

Chris, you have only read this part of the Problem, you have'nt went back to the start, this thread is where it eventually erupted. I'm only confrontational when i'm being attacked by some arse that's only been here for 21 days, as i said previously, look at the beginning of this thread and you'll read his comment about myself being "ill-informed" and himself being "well-informed" but that was just the ending and not the beginning of the Problems.

[Coinery 926]

For what it's worth I also got the impression there was an agenda, and a prolonged period of childish goading, no matter how politely done!!

Edited November 27, 2013 by Coinery

[scottishmoney 18]

Azda - you have to accept that there are certain individuals out there that like their plastic. Quite frankly I have been collecting coins since before they started tombing them in plastic and I do not feel it performs any service to "real" coin collectors. For better or worse there are those of us out there that enjoy the history, the artistry etc of coins and in a righteous fashion we only really value what we think of a coin - and not the opin of some anonymous person in a stuffy, underventilated and windowless and allegedly sterile environment has!

Surely you have seen my coin above, I hae others of that vernacular. I couldn't care the less what some dolt in some office in Florida USA or Blackpool Lancashire thinks of my coin. I only care what I think. Gees, whilst I would like for you to like my coin, i' you don't all the betters for me.

Sometime about five years ago I chanced upon an Anne Crown from 1707-E that was so tombed. If anything it being in a plastic coffin was a bit of a put off an' I talked the price down because of it. After I brought her home I cracked the old sot out of her coffin an' let her breathe again. Now she resides in non-PVC holder and can enjoy a wee bit of fresh air once the more. I don't get this thing for having coins "graded" and even "authenticated" - a real collector can do such with their own knowledge. Righteous, sure. Purist, sure.

[azda 973]

Azda - you have to accept that there are certain individuals out there that like their plastic. Quite frankly I have been collecting coins since before they started tombing them in plastic and I do not feel it performs any service to "real" coin collectors. For better or worse there are those of us out there that enjoy the history, the artistry etc of coins and in a righteous fashion we only really value what we think of a coin - and not the opin of some anonymous person in a stuffy, underventilated and windowless and allegedly sterile environment has!

Surely you have seen my coin above, I hae others of that vernacular. I couldn't care the less what some dolt in some office in Florida USA or Blackpool Lancashire thinks of my coin. I only care what I think. Gees, whilst I would like for you to like my coin, i' you don't all the betters for me.

Sometime about five years ago I chanced upon an Anne Crown from 1707-E that was so tombed. If anything it being in a plastic coffin was a bit of a put off an' I talked the price down because of it. After I brought her home I cracked the old sot out of her coffin an' let her breathe again. Now she resides in non-PVC holder and can enjoy a wee bit of fresh air once the more. I don't get this thing for having coins "graded" and even "authenticated" - a real collector can do such with their own knowledge. Righteous, sure. Purist, sure.

I do accept that, but HE could'nt accept that i'm not a fan of plastic and have MY OWN OPINION ON THAT SUBJECT nor am i a fan of how the Plastic fans in America would trade the same coin for a 1 Point difference on said plastic plus he disliked that i mentioned Artificial Toning. I don't quite understand how you can come in at the END of all this and quite simply say it all down to me. You Need to have looked back at the Facts and not just simply delete the plain truth of where and why i exploded.

Edited November 27, 2013 by azda

[declanwmagee 122]

Don't do it, Dave. It' be a poorer place without you...

[Paulus 1,942]

Don't do it, Dave. It' be a poorer place without you...

Agreed.

[RLC35 288]

Don't do it, Dave. It' be a poorer place without you...

Agreed.

I agree also. Dave adds a lot of insight and color to the Forum. The guy from Minnesota seems to be a trouble insighter! BTW...I am also from America!

[scottishmoney 18]

Azda - you have to accept that there are certain individuals out there that like their plastic. Quite frankly I have been collecting coins since before they started tombing them in plastic and I do not feel it performs any service to "real" coin collectors. For better or worse there are those of us out there that enjoy the history, the artistry etc of coins and in a righteous fashion we only really value what we think of a coin - and not the opin of some anonymous person in a stuffy, underventilated and windowless and allegedly sterile environment has!

Surely you have seen my coin above, I hae others of that vernacular. I couldn't care the less what some dolt in some office in Florida USA or Blackpool Lancashire thinks of my coin. I only care what I think. Gees, whilst I would like for you to like my coin, i' you don't all the betters for me.

Sometime about five years ago I chanced upon an Anne Crown from 1707-E that was so tombed. If anything it being in a plastic coffin was a bit of a put off an' I talked the price down because of it. After I brought her home I cracked the old sot out of her coffin an' let her breathe again. Now she resides in non-PVC holder and can enjoy a wee bit of fresh air once the more. I don't get this thing for having coins "graded" and even "authenticated" - a real collector can do such with their own knowledge. Righteous, sure. Purist, sure.

I do accept that, but HE could'nt accept that i'm not a fan of plastic and have MY OWN OPINION ON THAT SUBJECT nor am i a fan of how the Plastic fans in America would trade the same coin for a 1 Point difference on said plastic plus he disliked that i mentioned Artificial Toning. I don't quite understand how you can come in at the END of all this and quite simply say it all down to me. You Need to have looked back at the Facts and not just simply delete the plain truth of where and why i exploded.

BTW I was just looking at a rather well known USA auction sight, I really like Queen Kristina of Sweden crowns -

http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=231348&lotNo=60156

Huh? I know these coins, I have this certain little side pursuit of 17th and 18th century Swedes - no doubting this is a nice coin and I would be interested in it at my opinion - a VF coin at a VF price - but it is rather oversexed in the plastic - XF! I'd like to think anyone that really pursues these coins would view it as a VF as it is, and ignore the coffin.

So my point is - don't argue with the bloke - he relies on others for opinions of coins - not his own opin certainly. And by all means let him not slither under your hide nayther. You right hae more supporters in our vernacular than his.

[scottishmoney 18]

The guy from Minnesota seems to be a trouble insighter! BTW...I am also from America!

Minisodah - ya, eh, I heard o' the place:

[Mynki 23]

Well I'm new Azda, but I've been reading through the forum for a while and can see you have much to contribute and also think the forum would be worse without you.

The American chap is a troll and is clearly baiting you, he probably has nothing better to do with his time. Ignore him completely and he'll get bored and go away. Simples.

[RLC35 288]

The guy from Minnesota seems to be a trouble insighter! BTW...I am also from America!

Minisodah - ya, eh, I heard o' the place:

That was a great show, and it sounds like you have the accent down pat! Ha,Ha!

[Coinery 926]

Well I'm new Azda, but I've been reading through the forum for a while and can see you have much to contribute and also think the forum would be worse without you.

The American chap is a troll and is clearly baiting you, he probably has nothing better to do with his time. Ignore him completely and he'll get bored and go away. Simples.

That's very insightful of you mynki! Whilst BRG clearly has a very good eye for coins, and I would've enjoyed his positive contributions a great deal, I do feel that the forum's a lesser place for the tensions created by his personal vendettas against Dave!

I'm confident all the regular readers (and I read everything, refreshing many times daily, always have) and contributors (new included), will have picked up on the truth of the matter!

Don't leave, Dave, it would be seen a defeat!

I hope you do have a happy thanks-giving, BRG, you have superb coins, as I've repeatedly said, but you'll need to change tack, as your posts have strained what is a great forum!

[Nick 325]

The guy from Minnesota seems to be a trouble insighter! BTW...I am also from America!

Minisodah - ya, eh, I heard o' the place:

That was a great show, and it sounds like you have the accent down pat! Ha,Ha!

A classic film. A novel (but slightly predictable) use for a wood chipper...

[Chris Perkins 223]

I'll read it through again.

[jaggy 528]

I would add my voice to those who hope you don't leave. This forum would certainly be a poorer place without you.

[brg5658 111]

I'll read it through again.

All of my posts are public and viewable for all to see. My interactions with azda have been very few.

Within the first week of me joining, I noticed two curt and overarching statements by azda in threads that amounted to "PCGS can't grade, American's love plastic and artificial toning". My response to those two (or maybe three?) threads was simple and to the point. I asked if he was finished grinding his axe. That's all.

The second interaction with azda was in this thread where a new member asked about PCGS vs. CGS. azda in his way of painting with broad strokes replied that:

"If you are intending to sell your coins into an international market then PCGS would be the better option because those Crazy Yanks will buy the slab number instead of whats[sic] actually inside, if you know how to artificially tone them beforehand you'll make a fortune n[sic] the American market."

I pointed out how short-sighted and untrue this statement was. I never used vulgarities or back-handed insults, I simply told it how it was from my perspective. In his follow-up, azda himself points out that this was "twice" I had a dig at him personally. Note, twice...not the supposed "many" times over several weeks that he's now asserting. Furthermore, I don't see how disagreeing with someone is a personal attack -- it's a discussion forum, and while azda is to be entitled to his generalized and overarching opinions, am I not to be entitled to my opinions in a market where I have been active for 25 years? That's an interesting double standard.

All further interaction and replies after that 2nd interaction were in response to vulgar, direct attacks on me. I addressed all in a civil manner, and left many alone as I see no point is belaboring a point with someone who has painted himself into a victim's corner. Let me note that in this same thread I pointed out to TomGoodheart that his statement regarding USA eBay was false, but this was equally so no a personal attack. It was merely offering fact and clarification. Am I also attacking Tom by the same premise?

With regard to the "haters" comment I made in the toned coins thread, it was in (possibly poor) jest, but has nothing to do with azda. Many members here have expressed dislike of toned coins, and it was plural -- haters. I don't see how this is a jab at anyone specifically -- but I do see how a paranoid person could convince himself thereof.

In closing, I will just state that while I may be "new" to this forum, I am not "new" to the hobby or online forums. This is the 8th coin related forum I have joined, and I have committed over 10,000 comments (and a few research articles) to said forums over the past 4+ years. I know how the "he-said, she-said" forum games works. And, once someone has cried "foul" -- particularly a more "senior member" -- the facts seem to be irrelevant. I am quite certain, a review of the facts of these supposed personal attacks will reveal the reality...if anyone cares to take the time consult them. I joined this forum because I collect quite a lot of UK coins and tokens, and there is specialistic expertise here that is not available elsewhere.

===========

To azda I will simply say that no harm nor foul was intended. At the same time, I hope you realize that you have thrown just as many barbs my way as I have thrown yours. Certainly sharper (tongue) barbs. Would you not reply in an equally emphatic way if I made a comment such as "Those savage Scots love their cleaned and dipped out coins". That is the level of silliness and absurdity with which I have taken your "Crazy Yanks" and "artificial toning" jabs. I do apologize for any insults, but I am here to discuss coins. All the rest is a distraction...(e.g., the plastic game is here to stay -- whether we like it or not).

Kind regards,

-Brandon

[Accumulator 52]

I'll read it through again.

All of my posts are public and viewable for all to see. My interactions with azda have been very few.

Within the first week of me joining, I noticed two curt and overarching statements by azda in threads that amounted to "PCGS can't grade, American's love plastic and artificial toning". My response to those two (or maybe three?) threads was simple and to the point. I asked if he was finished grinding his axe. That's all.

The second interaction with azda was in this thread where a new member asked about PCGS vs. CGS. azda in his way of painting with broad strokes replied that:

"If you are intending to sell your coins into an international market then PCGS would be the better option because those Crazy Yanks will buy the slab number instead of whats[sic] actually inside, if you know how to artificially tone them beforehand you'll make a fortune n[sic] the American market."

I pointed out how short-sighted and untrue this statement was. I never used vulgarities or back-handed insults, I simply told it how it was from my perspective. In his follow-up, azda himself points out that this was "twice" I had a dig at him personally. Note, twice...not the supposed "many" times over several weeks that he's now asserting. Furthermore, I don't see how disagreeing with someone is a personal attack -- it's a discussion forum, and while azda is to be entitled to his generalized and overarching opinions, am I not to be entitled to my opinions in a market where I have been active for 25 years? That's an interesting double standard.

All further interaction and replies after that 2nd interaction were in response to vulgar, direct attacks on me. I addressed all in a civil manner, and left many alone as I see no point is belaboring a point with someone who has painted himself into a victim's corner. Let me note that in this same thread I pointed out to TomGoodheart that his statement regarding USA eBay was false, but this was equally so no a personal attack. It was merely offering fact and clarification. Am I also attacking Tom by the same premise?

With regard to the "haters" comment I made in the toned coins thread, it was in (possibly poor) jest, but has nothing to do with azda. Many members here have expressed dislike of toned coins, and it was plural -- haters. I don't see how this is a jab at anyone specifically -- but I do see how a paranoid person could convince himself thereof.

In closing, I will just state that while I may be "new" to this forum, I am not "new" to the hobby or online forums. This is the 8th coin related forum I have joined, and I have committed over 10,000 comments (and a few research articles) to said forums over the past 4+ years. I know how the "he-said, she-said" forum games works. And, once someone has cried "foul" -- particularly a more "senior member" -- the facts seem to be irrelevant. I am quite certain, a review of the facts of these supposed personal attacks will reveal the reality...if anyone cares to take the time consult them. I joined this forum because I collect quite a lot of UK coins and tokens, and there is specialistic expertise here that is not available elsewhere.

===========

To azda I will simply say that no harm nor foul was intended. At the same time, I hope you realize that you have thrown just as many barbs my way as I have thrown yours. Certainly sharper (tongue) barbs. Would you not reply in an equally emphatic way if I made a comment such as "Those savage Scots love their cleaned and dipped out coins". That is the level of silliness and absurdity with which I have taken your "Crazy Yanks" and "artificial toning" jabs. I do apologize for any insults, but I am here to discuss coins. All the rest is a distraction...(e.g., the plastic game is here to stay -- whether we like it or not).

Kind regards,

-Brandon

You've both had your say now.

This forum is definitely richer for BOTH your valuable contributions, so let's not lose either of you! Please.

Dave, Brandon, time to shake hands and move on?

Edited November 27, 2013 by Accumulator

[RLC35 288]

I don't see how this is a jab at anyone specifically -- but I do see how a paranoid person could convince himself thereof.

Brandon...can't you see that you are becoming a distraction to an otherwise great British Numismatic Forum. As the new guy on the block, please try to lower the intensity level somewhat. I am sure you have somthing to contribute. As for contributors saying something about the "American" or the "Yanks", leave it alone. America can take care of itself without our help, at least as far a numismatics is concerned.

BTW...welcome aboard!

Edited November 27, 2013 by RLC35

[VickySilver 775]

Wasn't Fargo in North Dakota? There's a city by that name there...

If you want tension, try the PCGS boards and check out when the subject of "Wild Toners" comes up. It seems mercifully that is a less common subject recently however.

[brg5658 111]

I think that's a very fair response. You've both had your say now.

This forum is definitely richer for BOTH your valuable contributions, so let's not lose either of you! Please.

Dave, Brandon, time to shake hands and move on?

I have no intent to leave, unless Chris finds me "guilty" of said accusations and bans me. It seems azda has essentially given an ultimatum of "I go or he does" -- though I hope he would reconsider. Quibbles of this sort are common on internet forums, this one has just been blown all out of proportion, fueled by the particularly incendiary topic of "slabs".

[brg5658 111]

I don't see how this is a jab at anyone specifically -- but I do see how a paranoid person could convince himself thereof.

Brandon...can't you see that you are becoming a distraction to an otherwise great British Numismatic Forum. As the new guy on the block, please try to lower the intensity level somewhat. I am sure you have somthing to contribute. As for contributors saying something about the "American" or the "Yanks", leave it alone. America can take care of itself without our help, at least as far a numismatics is concerned.

BTW...welcome aboard!

Bob, with all due respect, I think the "distraction" was when the f-bomb started flying willy-nilly as it if were an article (a, an, the). I concede, I can probably tone down my defense of the Americas...

-Brandon

[Coinery 926]

Taking into account we are all human beings, I think sensitivity in our communications with others is needed! You wouldn't meet your girlfriend's parents for the first time, or attend an interview, in muddy clothes, and there's a very good reason for this!

I hope Dave takes your peace offering, as it would be a shame to see him jump ship on account of a silly couple of weeks!

[jaggy 528]

You've both had your say now.

This forum is definitely richer for BOTH your valuable contributions, so let's not lose either of you! Please.

Dave, Brandon, time to shake hands and move on?

Seconded!!