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Most of my coins are probably not worth the cost of slabbing - I am considering sending a couple of my truly rare ones to CGS

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The BIG BUT is whether to slab or not.

I would't buy my apples from Harrods when I know i can get them cheaper from a farmers market or picked from my garden.

I bloody know what an apple is. :ph34r:

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The BIG BUT is whether to slab or not.

I would't buy my apples from Harrods when I know i can get them cheaper from a farmers market or picked from my garden.

I bloody know what an apple is. :ph34r:

LOL Peter does have a point though. My personal view is that while there are a number of reasons for having a coin slabbed (protection, grading, 'saleability' reassurance and to have it added to a 'hall of fame' type ranking), the majority can be satisfied without using a TPGS.

Capsules will protect your coins. And as Peter hints, self-education and forums like this will help establish a grade for coin as well as helping you identify the modern copies. A slab is no substitute of learning.

The sales aspect has already been mentioned. A while back (and probably buried in one of the threads I linked to earlier) there was a proposal a number of members here join together to buy high grade British coins, have them slabbed and sell them via an auction house like Heritage. The reason being the observation that PCGS slabbed British coins often go for a premium in the US over what they would here. Now there are a number of reasons this may be true and slabbing is only part of it.

Bottom line is, only one person can decide whether they think it's worthwhile having their coins slabbed and that's you.

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Geezus, so your advice is SO better than mine because you are? You believe you are well informed and versed on American coin Sales/slabs etc. I believe i'm well versed in what Americans buy and why they buy certain coins, this will be due to a certain slab number and the tone of a coin, please tell me i'm wrong :D

So my advice was from my perspective and again, its my opinion. What are your credentials again, just so i know when i must bow in your presence oh great one. You Worked for or at any TPGs, are you a Director of ebay or some other auction house, come, Tell me why your advice is sooooooo better than mine

I have collected for 25 years, all that while in the American market. I have owned 1,000+ graded coins from NGC and/or PCGS, and many thousands more that were raw. I have regularly attended shows, and followed all major auctions in the USA for the past 5+ years.

It is simply not true that we worship plastic and grade labels as an entire country of collectors. Further, your obsession with disavowing the occasional rainbow-toned coin in plastic is massively over-emphasized. Most TPG-graded coins sold in the USA are properly graded by our Sheldon 70-point scale, and the proportion that are mis-graded is far less than your comments would lead one to believe.

You will notice that I don't have strong (and vulgar) opinions of the CGS and UK coin grading market -- mostly because I prefer to only chime in on topics for which I have sufficient experience. Where I do feel I have seen enough to be informed is to say that LondonCoins is someplace I will not purchase from. The quality is simply not there, not to mention the handful of clear counterfeit coins they sell but seem to not care about.

So, what are your "credentials" -- since I don't know you from Adam -- enlighten me. Because, all I've seen here on this forum is your incessant regurgitation of anti-American collector sentiment. Almost every post you make here is judgmental and negative. How am I to perceive who you are besides from your replies here.

Cheers.

Funnily enough you've the 1st one to say i have an anto American collector Sentiment and there is more americans on this forum than just you yet i've not heard them say that. You came onto this forum and then have an Agenda with me, you tell me nearly every post i make is negative. Here is my tuppence worth. Go check my 2-3 years worth of posts and give me the ratio of negative posts that you CLAIM i've made, Beat in mind i have a few thousand posts, then get back to me. Now, back to your "properes graded coins.

I'll return to reply to that when i have the thread that accumulator started about a coin graded "properly apparently" by PCGS 0, then take a wee looksy at that and then come back and give me another laugh

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You can start by reading this thread and all it contains, including the link to the other forum, i wonder how many other people you can see from this forum being negative about the coin in question, yet as i keep saying, you seem to be trying to pick on me, you've picked the wrong man

http://www.predecimal.com/forum/topic/8267-comments-welcome-on-this-1892-26/

When you've read all that then pöease Feel free to comment. I'll post another link shortly and see if you pick on anyone else who said something negative about your dear american TPG.

If you don't have a dig at anyone else after reading the. I'll know you have a problem with just me and then see what we can do about you

Edited by azda

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The trouble is both the American market and the UK market seem to have taken different paths over the last twenty years or so with collectors in both countries totally sure their country is taking the right path .

While both countries have much in common the paths and developements in the field of coin dealing they are miles apart

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The trouble is both the American market and the UK market seem to have taken different paths over the last twenty years or so with collectors in both countries totally sure their country is taking the right path .

While both countries have much in common the paths and developements in the field of coin dealing they are miles apart

Thi ´s is very true, our difference is that we're not being told by large multinational companies that slabbing is the only way to achieve coin greatness. America is driven by Marketing companies who tell you that you must blah blah blah or else and the poor souls buy into it so much so that they swap/sell a coin for a Point more on a slab, what is 1 Point exacvtly, could you Point it out on the two same coins side by side?

In the UK, we buy coins becaise of the history of them, who has owned them before us etc, this is my Points and absolutely NOTHING to do with American bashing as according to the poster. There are several American collectors on here who have'nt bought into the TPG mentality, those are true collectors in my opinion, those are the People who want to collect for the history and not for the Dollar, so forgive me Vicky and Bob if it has come across like that, and my aploogies to the rest of the Forum. I'm a passionate collector as you all know.

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I wonder if it would be a good idea to have a Subform on TPG (like unconfirmed varieties)? New comers to the forum often ask the same questions regarding TPGs and this topic has been debated almost to the death in the past. Might be it is useful for them to have all the previous discussions on TPGs grouped together?

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I wonder if it would be a good idea to have a Subform on TPG (like unconfirmed varieties)? New comers to the forum often ask the same questions regarding TPGs and this topic has been debated almost to the death in the past. Might be it is useful for them to have all the previous discussions on TPGs grouped together?

I think that's a good idea Sword! Not just useful for newcomers either, I think it's at least as big a topic as toning

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I've got one slabbed coin, don't want any others.

FWIW, I wouldn't recommend either of the two organisations concerned. Both make errors, and the subsequent premium placed on a slabbed coin is not value for money.

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I wonder if it would be a good idea to have a Subform on TPG (like unconfirmed varieties)? New comers to the forum often ask the same questions regarding TPGs and this topic has been debated almost to the death in the past. Might be it is useful for them to have all the previous discussions on TPGs grouped together?

Sounds sensible Sword. Unfortunately my Admin powers don't extend to adding sub-forums! I can suggest it to Chris P and see what he thinks.

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I've got one slabbed coin, don't want any others.

FWIW, I wouldn't recommend either of the two organisations concerned. Both make errors, and the subsequent premium placed on a slabbed coin is not value for money.

I concur that the premium placed on a slabbed coin is not value for money, but the fallibility of the TPGs is well worth the discount generated by misattribution/bad grading etc. Nobody is forced to buy a coin, raw or slabbed. That people choose to do so is entirely their perogative. Disregard the overgraded coin in the slab with the wrong label just as you would a typical eBay listing. Relatively very few coins are rare such that you can't find another somewhere else. If it happens to be the only example extant you are unlikely to be the only one chasing it whether raw or slabbed. No one system wins hands down, both have their strengths and weaknesses. Play these off according to the individual situation.

For example, one day I would like a Peck 1983, but I've never seen one and don't know of any free-range examples.

post-381-0-56022300-1385332466_thumb.jpg

post-381-0-76168000-1385332486_thumb.jpg

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My personal advice would be to 'learn your coins' and forget which TPGC is best for any given coin; not that there isn't plenty written here about it already, if you wish to pursue it (good point re centralising it all)! There have been far too many errors made by them to warrant any faith in them, unless it's about slabbing to sell to those who are determined to follow this path!

The thing to definitely be wary of is US TPGC's who slab UK coins, there are examples where fakes have been entombed as genuine, amongst others!

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Personally, I'm not too bothered about TPGs. That is because 1) I buy coins for myself and to keep, 2) I have never actually sold a coin so the 'premium' you get from a TPG is irrelevant and 3) I make my own mind up to value and grade irrespective of what the TPG gives it and bid accordingly.

I do have a number of coins that are slabbed; maybe 30 or so in total. I choose not to take them out of the slabs for the time being. However, as a collector, I much prefer buying 'raw'.

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Personally, I'm not too bothered about TPGs. That is because 1) I buy coins for myself and to keep, 2) I have never actually sold a coin so the 'premium' you get from a TPG is irrelevant and 3) I make my own mind up to value and grade irrespective of what the TPG gives it and bid accordingly.

I do have a number of coins that are slabbed; maybe 30 or so in total. I choose not to take them out of the slabs for the time being. However, as a collector, I much prefer buying 'raw'.

I think that's a fair point. The problem comes if and when you decide to have your own coins slabbed : the gamble you take in forking out £30 per item, when you're not even sure if the item will be accepted in the first place, makes slabbing anything worth less than £250 raw, not worth it IMO.

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Personally, I'm not too bothered about TPGs. That is because 1) I buy coins for myself and to keep, 2) I have never actually sold a coin so the 'premium' you get from a TPG is irrelevant and 3) I make my own mind up to value and grade irrespective of what the TPG gives it and bid accordingly.

I do have a number of coins that are slabbed; maybe 30 or so in total. I choose not to take them out of the slabs for the time being. However, as a collector, I much prefer buying 'raw'.

A true collector Jaggy. :)

I have bought upgrades and sold others to concentrate on current topics.

I often have a few in my ruck sack at fairs to trade in.(everyones happy) I also have taken advantage of the bullion explosion to buy discs of cu.

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Personally, I'm not too bothered about TPGs. That is because 1) I buy coins for myself and to keep, 2) I have never actually sold a coin so the 'premium' you get from a TPG is irrelevant and 3) I make my own mind up to value and grade irrespective of what the TPG gives it and bid accordingly.

I do have a number of coins that are slabbed; maybe 30 or so in total. I choose not to take them out of the slabs for the time being. However, as a collector, I much prefer buying 'raw'.

much much cheaper buying them raw also so a plus side just to learn how to grade for yourself

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The BIG BUT is whether to slab or not.

I would't buy my apples from Harrods when I know i can get them cheaper from a farmers market or picked from my garden.

I bloody know what an apple is. :ph34r:

LOL Peter does have a point though. My personal view is that while there are a number of reasons for having a coin slabbed (protection, grading, 'saleability' reassurance and to have it added to a 'hall of fame' type ranking), the majority can be satisfied without using a TPGS.

Capsules will protect your coins. And as Peter hints, self-education and forums like this will help establish a grade for coin as well as helping you identify the modern copies. A slab is no substitute of learning.

The sales aspect has already been mentioned. A while back (and probably buried in one of the threads I linked to earlier) there was a proposal a number of members here join together to buy high grade British coins, have them slabbed and sell them via an auction house like Heritage. The reason being the observation that PCGS slabbed British coins often go for a premium in the US over what they would here. Now there are a number of reasons this may be true and slabbing is only part of it.

Bottom line is, only one person can decide whether they think it's worthwhile having their coins slabbed and that's you.

Some very interesting points there. It's only recently that I've taken an interest in collecting more seriously than my earlier attempts. I'f I'm honest I'm still trying to decide what areas I'd like to start serious collections in. The choice is immense and the learning curve very steep. Normally I'm the impatient sort but am trying very hard to restrain myself until I'm sure I know what I want to learn about and collect.

I'd like to build a collection to hand over to my young son when the time comes and hope he'll share my interest as he grows. I confess, I'm also an investor and entrepeneur in other areas and this does rightly or wrongly make me look at potential purchases in different ways. From what I can gather, I really should look at raw initially as this will assist with being able to grade myself. I can see the obvious flaws with slabbed coins that have been mentioned and I also understand the difference in mentalities between the US and UK, I've certainly spent enough time stateside to understand how many yanks think differently from the brits, so their attitudes to slabbing don't really come as any surprise to me. So Azda, you really don't come across as racist to me, and I doubt anyone else. Life would be pretty boring if we all had the same mentality after all!

My initial interest was sparked by seeing several slabbed UK bullion coins selling for an apparent premium to the american market. This made me wonder if there was any mileage in buying, slabbing and selling with the slab 'adding more value than it's initial cost' to overseas markets. This isn't the collector in me talking, but the entrepeneur. However, if it were that easy I'm sure a lot more people would be doing it right now!

This also made me wonder if the likes of London Coins purchase bullion coins in volume and then examine them and simply slab the best examples to add a premium to their stock? What does everybody else think?

So I think I'll probably look to acquire some similar raw coins and see how I do at grading them, and then purchase a slabbed version to see if I can see the comparrison myself. I'm under no illusion that there is an awful lot to learn here.

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Some very interesting points there. It's only recently that I've taken an interest in collecting more seriously than my earlier attempts. I'f I'm honest I'm still trying to decide what areas I'd like to start serious collections in. The choice is immense and the learning curve very steep. Normally I'm the impatient sort but am trying very hard to restrain myself until I'm sure I know what I want to learn about and collect.

I'd like to build a collection to hand over to my young son when the time comes and hope he'll share my interest as he grows. I confess, I'm also an investor and entrepeneur in other areas and this does rightly or wrongly make me look at potential purchases in different ways. From what I can gather, I really should look at raw initially as this will assist with being able to grade myself. I can see the obvious flaws with slabbed coins that have been mentioned and I also understand the difference in mentalities between the US and UK, I've certainly spent enough time stateside to understand how many yanks think differently from the brits, so their attitudes to slabbing don't really come as any surprise to me. So Azda, you really don't come across as racist to me, and I doubt anyone else. Life would be pretty boring if we all had the same mentality after all!

My initial interest was sparked by seeing several slabbed UK bullion coins selling for an apparent premium to the american market. This made me wonder if there was any mileage in buying, slabbing and selling with the slab 'adding more value than it's initial cost' to overseas markets. This isn't the collector in me talking, but the entrepeneur. However, if it were that easy I'm sure a lot more people would be doing it right now!

This also made me wonder if the likes of London Coins purchase bullion coins in volume and then examine them and simply slab the best examples to add a premium to their stock? What does everybody else think?

So I think I'll probably look to acquire some similar raw coins and see how I do at grading them, and then purchase a slabbed version to see if I can see the comparrison myself. I'm under no illusion that there is an awful lot to learn here.

That's a very sensible attitude to starting off - curbing impatience until you've learned to grade, and got some idea of what you really want to specialise in (though there's nothing to stop you collecting widely - but sensibly - to begin with, you can always sell off later the items you're not so keen on).

I wouldn't be very surprised if it turned out that London Coins do something on those lines - after all, they slabbed and then promoted on eBay some not very special 1915 farthings (VF), so who knows? As it stands, their population reports are pretty meaningless, restricted to what they've actually seen and slabbed.

Small picky point : if a Brit says something against Americans or vice versa, they can't be accused of racism. Britain and the US are BOTH composed of different races. Nationalism, is what I think you meant.

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You might want to look at this Mynki.

Chris' (owner) book offerings are available on Amazon and Derek's Grading book :http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0948964839?ie=UTF8&tag=predecimalcoi-21&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=6738&creativeASIN=0948964839 might be of interest. They do say you should buy the book before you buy the coin, after all!

Oh, and Collectors' Coins GB. Cheaper than Spink.

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You might want to look at this Mynki.

Chris' (owner) book offerings are available on Amazon and Derek's Grading book :http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0948964839?ie=UTF8&tag=predecimalcoi-21&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=6738&creativeASIN=0948964839 might be of interest. They do say you should buy the book before you buy the coin, after all!

Oh, and Collectors' Coins GB. Cheaper than Spink.

The Grading book linked by Tom is a splendid work. I picked it up a few months back, and it's highly useful!

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I simply buy the coin I want. If it happens to be in a slab, then fine. If it happens to be raw, that's fine too, though it makes photography a lot easier.

There's an interesting parallel to coins, with wine in the US. If you've never come across him before, look up Robert Parker. In the States, prices of fine wines are, to a huge extent, determined by the 'score' (50-100) given by this man. If you want to hear the UK view (not positive towards Mr. Parker and his influence), read the intro to one of Hugh Johnson's annual wine guides! Here in the UK, wine scores have never really taken off, much like slabs.

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I simply buy the coin I want. If it happens to be in a slab, then fine. If it happens to be raw, that's fine too, though it makes photography a lot easier.

There's an interesting parallel to coins, with wine in the US. If you've never come across him before, look up Robert Parker. In the States, prices of fine wines are, to a huge extent, determined by the 'score' (50-100) given by this man. If you want to hear the UK view (not positive towards Mr. Parker and his influence), read the intro to one of Hugh Johnson's annual wine guides! Here in the UK, wine scores have never really taken off, much like slabs.

Like many wine drinkers, I buy and consume what tastes nice to me, not what someone else likes. If it is considered by certain circles to be nasty cheap plonk then great, there's all the more for me. £3 or £30 doesn't matter if it tastes nice, the same for something undrinkable is not welcome.

It's like anything else that's widely criticised in print - all are opinions and nothing else. If the art critic likes something, that's up to him, just as I may not like it, which is my opinion. It's mostly all a load of verbal candyfloss; occasional content interspersed with an awful lot of air which tries to impress on people that the commentator really appreciates what he/she is writing about and that any rational person will have to appreciate it too. More fundamentally, they have somehow managed to generate an income for saying little of any use - nice if you can get it. Personally, if I hear something written about a car for example when someone is waxing lyrical about its performance, the opinion doesn't matter one jot if I have to crowbar myself into the seat with my head jammed against the ceiling - in my view, that's a cr*p car that's neither use nor ornament. End of.

Don't get me started on critics, such as the eponymous Mr Commode.

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Some very interesting points there. It's only recently that I've taken an interest in collecting more seriously than my earlier attempts. I'f I'm honest I'm still trying to decide what areas I'd like to start serious collections in. The choice is immense and the learning curve very steep. Normally I'm the impatient sort but am trying very hard to restrain myself until I'm sure I know what I want to learn about and collect.

I'd like to build a collection to hand over to my young son when the time comes and hope he'll share my interest as he grows. I confess, I'm also an investor and entrepeneur in other areas and this does rightly or wrongly make me look at potential purchases in different ways. From what I can gather, I really should look at raw initially as this will assist with being able to grade myself. I can see the obvious flaws with slabbed coins that have been mentioned and I also understand the difference in mentalities between the US and UK, I've certainly spent enough time stateside to understand how many yanks think differently from the brits, so their attitudes to slabbing don't really come as any surprise to me. So Azda, you really don't come across as racist to me, and I doubt anyone else. Life would be pretty boring if we all had the same mentality after all!

My initial interest was sparked by seeing several slabbed UK bullion coins selling for an apparent premium to the american market. This made me wonder if there was any mileage in buying, slabbing and selling with the slab 'adding more value than it's initial cost' to overseas markets. This isn't the collector in me talking, but the entrepeneur. However, if it were that easy I'm sure a lot more people would be doing it right now!

This also made me wonder if the likes of London Coins purchase bullion coins in volume and then examine them and simply slab the best examples to add a premium to their stock? What does everybody else think?

So I think I'll probably look to acquire some similar raw coins and see how I do at grading them, and then purchase a slabbed version to see if I can see the comparrison myself. I'm under no illusion that there is an awful lot to learn here.

That's a very sensible attitude to starting off - curbing impatience until you've learned to grade, and got some idea of what you really want to specialise in (though there's nothing to stop you collecting widely - but sensibly - to begin with, you can always sell off later the items you're not so keen on).

I wouldn't be very surprised if it turned out that London Coins do something on those lines - after all, they slabbed and then promoted on eBay some not very special 1915 farthings (VF), so who knows? As it stands, their population reports are pretty meaningless, restricted to what they've actually seen and slabbed.

Small picky point : if a Brit says something against Americans or vice versa, they can't be accused of racism. Britain and the US are BOTH composed of different races. Nationalism, is what I think you meI

It's surprising how difficult it is to decide where to start. I did like the look of hammered coins, but found them a little daunting if I'm honest. I bought the Spinks guide (I know there's a new one out in a few days, but as I said, I am impatient!) but the sheer variety available doesn't make it easy. Bullion coins have some appeal as I firmly believe that silver values will increase significantly over the next couple of decades for a whole variety of reasons, but don't have the same interest or appeal as others to me personally.

I wouldn't read anything into the racism remark, it was in direct reply to another member who'd used that word in his defence. :)

Before reading the threads on this forum it was very apparent to me that there is some kind of 'special relationship' between LC and CGS. It would be interesting to see if anyone had the business accumen to market the virtues of CGS to the yanks. Writing marketting drivel on ebay does have it's advantages after all, I'm sure there is an opportunity there for someone.....

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