Jump to content
British Coin Forum - Predecimal.com

50 Years of RotographicCoinpublications.com A Rotographic Imprint. Price guide reference book publishers since 1959. Lots of books on coins, banknotes and medals. Please visit and like Coin Publications on Facebook for offers and updates.

Coin Publications on Facebook

   Rotographic    

The current range of books. Click the image above to see them on Amazon (printed and Kindle format). More info on coinpublications.com

predecimal.comPredecimal.com. One of the most popular websites on British pre-decimal coins, with hundreds of coins for sale, advice for beginners and interesting information.

Recommended Posts

Hi all, I'm new to this forum. I'd appreciate peoples thoughts on the following...

What are peoples thoughts on CGS and PCGS?

Is one more desirable than the other? And where in the UK can you have your coins PCGS slabbed, if anywhere?

From what I can see, having coins slabbed just seems like a way for coin dealers to add significant value to their stock, is this a fair assumption or am I missing something?

Thanks in advance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Welcome Mynki. Are you looking to slab your own coins or buy slabbed coins? If you are intending to sell your coins into an international market then PCGS would be the better option because those Crazy Yanks will buy the slab number instead of whats actually inside, if you know how to artificially tone them beforehand you'll make a fortune n the American market.

If you intend to buy to slab for your own collection and the coins you want slabbing are English then CGS are probably the better option but they now have a turnaround of a Maximum of 3 months which is far to Long in my opinion and have also raised their fee to £30 a submission. PCGS now have an office in Paris, you can join their Club for a fee and get up to 8 free submissions depending on your membership level

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the 'significant value' thing only works in the US. In fact, a lot of people seem reluctant to trust their own judgement and buy unslabbed. Plus you can't even suggest a grade on US ebay unless it's backed up by the coin being slabbed by one of their approved TPGS.

For individuals you have to balance the cost of grading/encapsulation against the overall value of the coin. I see little point spending £30 to get a certified grade on a £50 coin...

I didn't bother mentioning on the other forum that US TPGS have in the past made significant errors attributing British coins. Which can be an advantage for a buyer, but only if you know your coins! There was also that thread where someone claimed that PCGS damaged their coin ...

If you look at these previous threads:

http://www.predecimal.com/forum/topic/7753-cgs-a-customer-facing-business/page-5?hl=trial#entry82331

http://www.predecimal.com/forum/topic/7811-cgs-trial/?hl=trial

http://www.predecimal.com/forum/topic/8066-cgs-trial-part-2/?hl=grading

http://www.predecimal.com/forum/topic/8235-cgs-trial-part-3/page-2?hl=grading#entry91238

you'll see that CGS have very stringent standards and a rigorous system for ensuring consistency of their grading. They do perhaps need to improve some aspects of their customer service/turnaround, but generally they have some very satisfied customers...

but whether it's worth using such a service at all is an issue that rather divides members here and one you'll need to decide for yourself Mynki!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You buy the coin,not the slab of plastic it sits in.Its vital to remember that

IMHO :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh boy, another can of worms with the OP?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh boy, another can of worms with the OP?

Lol, it will happen more often than not Vicky when a new poster comes along and asks the same question. What i would say is that each to their own, we all agree to disagree and not everyone will give the same opinion, thats what makes us all individuals

Edited by azda

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh boy, another can of worms with the OP?

Ah, that'd be me Vicky. I suggested Mynki ask the question here as well as on a US based forum because I thought he'd get additional .. perspective here.

Plus I try to get anyone that posts about British coins there (CCF) to visit 'the experts', if I possibly can!

Sorry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the 'significant value' thing only works in the US. In fact, a lot of people seem reluctant to trust their own judgement and buy unslabbed. Plus you can't even suggest a grade on US ebay unless it's backed up by the coin being slabbed by one of their approved TPGS.

That is completely false. The only restriction on US eBay is that you cannot claim a specific numeric (Sheldon) grade anywhere in the listing (title, description, or item specifics) unless it has been graded by PCGS, NGC, ANACS, or ICG. There is NO restriction on putting a grade like G, VF, XF, UNC, A/UNC, etc. in the title or listing description. Furthermore, if the coin has been graded by ICCS, CGS, etc. there is nothing preventing you from taking a picture of the grade on the holder and displaying that very prominently in the listing, despite it not being among the 4 "approved" TPGs that eBay allows.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/currstamps.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is completely false. The only restriction on US eBay is that you cannot claim a specific numeric (Sheldon) grade anywhere in the listing (title, description, or item specifics) unless it has been graded by PCGS, NGC, ANACS, or ICG.

Thanks brg, I stand corrected. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Welcome Mynki. Are you looking to slab your own coins or buy slabbed coins? If you are intending to sell your coins into an international market then PCGS would be the better option because those Crazy Yanks will buy the slab number instead of whats actually inside, if you know how to artificially tone them beforehand you'll make a fortune n the American market.

If you intend to buy to slab for your own collection and the coins you want slabbing are English then CGS are probably the better option but they now have a turnaround of a Maximum of 3 months which is far to Long in my opinion and have also raised their fee to £30 a submission. PCGS now have an office in Paris, you can join their Club for a fee and get up to 8 free submissions depending on your membership level

Really? You clearly don't follow the Asian and Australian markets then...as collectors in those two realms also place quite a bit of emphasis on reputable TPGs, including PCGS and NGC.

This little bit is juvenile at the least, and frankly misleading. I will not reply to this claim directly, other than to say that I hope Mynki understands the statement is a feeble attempt by the poster to dig in his anti-American claws just a bit deeper. Having nearly 6,000 posts on this forum doesn't make someone infallible, so take the comments of azda cum grano salis.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The grading debate will go on and on.

I don't believe any of the posters on this forum are anti US.

I prefer reasoned debate and not trying to pick holes.There are of course merits and demerits with grading.

Good counterfeits are out there (even the slabs) and a guarantee is often snapped up the public.

The US market is different with grading low cost modern coins.

If it wasn't for London Coins and CGS the UK grading market would be dead in the water.

I personally have 6 slabbed coins which were purchased that way.The other 000's are raw.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Welcome Mynki. Are you looking to slab your own coins or buy slabbed coins? If you are intending to sell your coins into an international market then PCGS would be the better option because those Crazy Yanks will buy the slab number instead of whats actually inside, if you know how to artificially tone them beforehand you'll make a fortune n the American market.

If you intend to buy to slab for your own collection and the coins you want slabbing are English then CGS are probably the better option but they now have a turnaround of a Maximum of 3 months which is far to Long in my opinion and have also raised their fee to £30 a submission. PCGS now have an office in Paris, you can join their Club for a fee and get up to 8 free submissions depending on your membership level

Really? You clearly don't follow the Asian and Australian markets then...as collectors in those two realms also place quite a bit of emphasis on reputable TPGs, including PCGS and NGC.

This little bit is juvenile at the least, and frankly misleading. I will not reply to this claim directly, other than to say that I hope Mynki understands the statement is a feeble attempt by the poster to dig in his anti-American claws just a bit deeper. Having nearly 6,000 posts on this forum doesn't make someone infallible, so take the comments of azda cum grano salis.

Thats twice you've had a dig at me personally. If you have a ******* problem with me the spit it out. I'm not a Fan of American TPGs or a Fan of how the AMERICANS make more of an emphasis on the slab number other than the coin inside. You saying "you won't reply to this claim directly claiming its feeble is a freaking joke also as you did reply to it, but my reply was to the OP and not to you so if you Chose not to reply to it i personally don't give a ****** ****. I also don't follow the Australian or Asian market. Now, if you dislike my dislike of how the Americans collect a slab other than whats inside then please don't ******* comment on my reply.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Welcome Mynki. Are you looking to slab your own coins or buy slabbed coins? If you are intending to sell your coins into an international market then PCGS would be the better option because those Crazy Yanks will buy the slab number instead of whats actually inside, if you know how to artificially tone them beforehand you'll make a fortune n the American market.

If you intend to buy to slab for your own collection and the coins you want slabbing are English then CGS are probably the better option but they now have a turnaround of a Maximum of 3 months which is far to Long in my opinion and have also raised their fee to £30 a submission. PCGS now have an office in Paris, you can join their Club for a fee and get up to 8 free submissions depending on your membership level

Really? You clearly don't follow the Asian and Australian markets then...as collectors in those two realms also place quite a bit of emphasis on reputable TPGs, including PCGS and NGC.

This little bit is juvenile at the least, and frankly misleading. I will not reply to this claim directly, other than to say that I hope Mynki understands the statement is a feeble attempt by the poster to dig in his anti-American claws just a bit deeper. Having nearly 6,000 posts on this forum doesn't make someone infallible, so take the comments of azda cum grano salis.

Thats twice you've had a dig at me personally. If you have a ******* problem with me the spit it out. I'm not a Fan of American TPGs or a Fan of how the AMERICANS make more of an emphasis on the slab number other than the coin inside. You saying "you won't reply to this claim directly claiming its feeble is a freaking joke also as you did reply to it, but my reply was to the OP and not to you so if you Chose not to reply to it i personally don't give a ****** ****. I also don't follow the Australian or Asian market. Now, if you dislike my dislike of how the Americans collect a slab other than whats inside then please don't ******* comment on my reply.

Your comments are massively over-generalized and outright false. Furthermore, you clearly have no experience in the American market, so I don't think you are qualified nor do you have any business making such ill-informed generalizations. I was merely amending your unjustified and uneducated assessment of the American market. I think your use of profanity speaks volumes; if one is truly knowledgeable in their field (i.e., has evidence instead of just stories), then there is no need to be so dramatic and vulgar. Best to stick with what you know -- that apparently being the UK/European market.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And to everyone else i make my apologies to, but this idiot has pushed my Buttons once too many times. He talks like i'm some sort of racist, but just to clear that up, i live with my Turkish girlfriend who is Muslim before he starts again

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Welcome Mynki. Are you looking to slab your own coins or buy slabbed coins? If you are intending to sell your coins into an international market then PCGS would be the better option because those Crazy Yanks will buy the slab number instead of whats actually inside, if you know how to artificially tone them beforehand you'll make a fortune n the American market.

If you intend to buy to slab for your own collection and the coins you want slabbing are English then CGS are probably the better option but they now have a turnaround of a Maximum of 3 months which is far to Long in my opinion and have also raised their fee to £30 a submission. PCGS now have an office in Paris, you can join their Club for a fee and get up to 8 free submissions depending on your membership level

Really? You clearly don't follow the Asian and Australian markets then...as collectors in those two realms also place quite a bit of emphasis on reputable TPGs, including PCGS and NGC.

This little bit is juvenile at the least, and frankly misleading. I will not reply to this claim directly, other than to say that I hope Mynki understands the statement is a feeble attempt by the poster to dig in his anti-American claws just a bit deeper. Having nearly 6,000 posts on this forum doesn't make someone infallible, so take the comments of azda cum grano salis.

Thats twice you've had a dig at me personally. If you have a ******* problem with me the spit it out. I'm not a Fan of American TPGs or a Fan of how the AMERICANS make more of an emphasis on the slab number other than the coin inside. You saying "you won't reply to this claim directly claiming its feeble is a freaking joke also as you did reply to it, but my reply was to the OP and not to you so if you Chose not to reply to it i personally don't give a ****** ****. I also don't follow the Australian or Asian market. Now, if you dislike my dislike of how the Americans collect a slab other than whats inside then please don't ******* comment on my reply.

Your comments are massively over-generalized and outright false. Furthermore, you clearly have no experience in the American market, so I don't think you are qualified nor do you have any business making such ill-informed generalizations. I was merely amending your unjustified and uneducated assessment of the American market. I think your use of profanity speaks volumes; if one is truly knowledgeable in their field (i.e., has evidence instead of just stories), then there is no need to be so dramatic and vulgar. Best to stick with what you know -- that apparently being the UK/European market.

I did'nt realise you have to be qualified to have an opinion. We all know that Americans buy AT coins in slabs at hyper inflated prices because of their marketing ploys. Take your head from out of your ****, the Brits are'nt as gullable. Einfach. Now just don't reply to anymore of my comments.

Edited by Chris Perkins

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Welcome Mynki. Are you looking to slab your own coins or buy slabbed coins? If you are intending to sell your coins into an international market then PCGS would be the better option because those Crazy Yanks will buy the slab number instead of whats actually inside, if you know how to artificially tone them beforehand you'll make a fortune n the American market.

If you intend to buy to slab for your own collection and the coins you want slabbing are English then CGS are probably the better option but they now have a turnaround of a Maximum of 3 months which is far to Long in my opinion and have also raised their fee to £30 a submission. PCGS now have an office in Paris, you can join their Club for a fee and get up to 8 free submissions depending on your membership level

Really? You clearly don't follow the Asian and Australian markets then...as collectors in those two realms also place quite a bit of emphasis on reputable TPGs, including PCGS and NGC.

This little bit is juvenile at the least, and frankly misleading. I will not reply to this claim directly, other than to say that I hope Mynki understands the statement is a feeble attempt by the poster to dig in his anti-American claws just a bit deeper. Having nearly 6,000 posts on this forum doesn't make someone infallible, so take the comments of azda cum grano salis.

Thats twice you've had a dig at me personally. If you have a fucking problem with me the spit it out. I'm not a Fan of American TPGs or a Fan of how the AMERICANS make more of an emphasis on the slab number other than the coin inside. You saying "you won't reply to this claim directly claiming its feeble is a freaking joke also as you did reply to it, but my reply was to the OP and not to you so if you Chose not to reply to it i personally don't give a flying f**k. I also don't follow the Australian or Asian market. Now, if you dislike my dislike of how the Americans collect a slab other than whats inside then please don't f*****g comment on my reply. NUMPTY

Your comments are massively over-generalized and outright false. Furthermore, you clearly have no experience in the American market, so I don't think you are qualified nor do you have any business making such ill-informed generalizations. I was merely amending your unjustified and uneducated assessment of the American market. I think your use of profanity speaks volumes; if one is truly knowledgeable in their field (i.e., has evidence instead of just stories), then there is no need to be so dramatic and vulgar. Best to stick with what you know -- that apparently being the UK/European market.

I did'nt realise you have to be qualified to have an opinion. Here in the EU we have a Freedom of speech. Here's my opinion, go fuck yourself you cock

You can have all the opinions you'd like, that doesn't make them reality. The OP was asking for advice. When offering advice, I prefer informed opinions. My opinion of your advice is that it is ill-informed. I have every right to that opinion just as you do to your opinion.

For the rest of your issues, I will merely state that you may want to consult the newly released DSM-V.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Geezus, so your advice is SO better than mine because you are? You believe you are well informed and versed on American coin Sales/slabs etc. I believe i'm well versed in what Americans buy and why they buy certain coins, this will be due to a certain slab number and the tone of a coin, please tell me i'm wrong :D

So my advice was from my perspective and again, its my opinion. What are your credentials again, just so i know when i must bow in your presence oh great one. You Worked for or at any TPGs, are you a Director of ebay or some other auction house, come, Tell me why your advice is sooooooo better than mine

Edited by azda

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Welcome Mynki. Are you looking to slab your own coins or buy slabbed coins? If you are intending to sell your coins into an international market then PCGS would be the better option because those Crazy Yanks will buy the slab number instead of whats actually inside, if you know how to artificially tone them beforehand you'll make a fortune n the American market.

If you intend to buy to slab for your own collection and the coins you want slabbing are English then CGS are probably the better option but they now have a turnaround of a Maximum of 3 months which is far to Long in my opinion and have also raised their fee to £30 a submission. PCGS now have an office in Paris, you can join their Club for a fee and get up to 8 free submissions depending on your membership level

Really? You clearly don't follow the Asian and Australian markets then...as collectors in those two realms also place quite a bit of emphasis on reputable TPGs, including PCGS and NGC.

This little bit is juvenile at the least, and frankly misleading. I will not reply to this claim directly, other than to say that I hope Mynki understands the statement is a feeble attempt by the poster to dig in his anti-American claws just a bit deeper. Having nearly 6,000 posts on this forum doesn't make someone infallible, so take the comments of azda cum grano salis.

Thats twice you've had a dig at me personally. If you have a ******* problem with me the spit it out. I'm not a Fan of American TPGs or a Fan of how the AMERICANS make more of an emphasis on the slab number other than the coin inside. You saying "you won't reply to this claim directly claiming its feeble is a freaking joke also as you did reply to it, but my reply was to the OP and not to you so if you Chose not to reply to it i personally don't give a ****** ****. I also don't follow the Australian or Asian market. Now, if you dislike my dislike of how the Americans collect a slab other than whats inside then please don't ******* comment on my reply.

Your comments are massively over-generalized and outright false. Furthermore, you clearly have no experience in the American market, so I don't think you are qualified nor do you have any business making such ill-informed generalizations. I was merely amending your unjustified and uneducated assessment of the American market. I think your use of profanity speaks volumes; if one is truly knowledgeable in their field (i.e., has evidence instead of just stories), then there is no need to be so dramatic and vulgar. Best to stick with what you know -- that apparently being the UK/European market.

I did'nt realise you have to be qualified to have an opinion. Here in the EU we have a Freedom of speech. Here's my opinion, go fuck yourself you cock

You can have all the opinions you'd like, that doesn't make them reality. The OP was asking for advice. When offering advice, I prefer informed opinions. My opinion of your advice is that it is ill-informed. I have every right to that opinion just as you do to your opinion.

For the rest of your issues, I will merely state that you may want to consult the newly released DSM-V.

So your advice is informed and mine is i'll-informed, lmfao. So i obviously have to ask, seeing as how you don't know me from adam yet keep attacking me for no reason at all, why is your advice informed and mine i'll-informed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well thanks for the replies gents. And thank you Tom for your message.

I've been viewing an awful lot of coins for sale recently, and although I got the impression there was an element of tongue in cheek humour in post 2, from what I've seen there also appears to be an element of truth in it too. My opinion is based purely on what I've seen with my own eyes on the American ebay site.

Thanks to the links to the other threads, there's clearly some very interesting information there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Goodness, let Peace be amongst us.

Even though I have been guilty of a bit of nonsense, now and then,…..

I go up and down with regards to my feelings toward the TPGs, but one thing I think PCGS is good at is grading things like 19th C. Liberty Seated Coinage. I am not always a fan of their Brit grading, even of the latter milled bits. However, as I think I somehow managed to post one time, I have FOUR (!!!) 1935 specimen crowns of "gem" appearance. One is raw, one is PCGS65, one is CGS85, and another NGC65.

Winner was PCGS! NGC second with perhaps a tie between raw and CGS ( which had developed a sad verdigris WITHIN their holder) but even without that was still a trailer...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*cough cough* There's a pm function gentlemen. Feel free to use it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Geezus, so your advice is SO better than mine because you are? You believe you are well informed and versed on American coin Sales/slabs etc. I believe i'm well versed in what Americans buy and why they buy certain coins, this will be due to a certain slab number and the tone of a coin, please tell me i'm wrong :D

So my advice was from my perspective and again, its my opinion. What are your credentials again, just so i know when i must bow in your presence oh great one. You Worked for or at any TPGs, are you a Director of ebay or some other auction house, come, Tell me why your advice is sooooooo better than mine

I have collected for 25 years, all that while in the American market. I have owned 1,000+ graded coins from NGC and/or PCGS, and many thousands more that were raw. I have regularly attended shows, and followed all major auctions in the USA for the past 5+ years.

It is simply not true that we worship plastic and grade labels as an entire country of collectors. Further, your obsession with disavowing the occasional rainbow-toned coin in plastic is massively over-emphasized. Most TPG-graded coins sold in the USA are properly graded by our Sheldon 70-point scale, and the proportion that are mis-graded is far less than your comments would lead one to believe.

You will notice that I don't have strong (and vulgar) opinions of the CGS and UK coin grading market -- mostly because I prefer to only chime in on topics for which I have sufficient experience. Where I do feel I have seen enough to be informed is to say that LondonCoins is someplace I will not purchase from. The quality is simply not there, not to mention the handful of clear counterfeit coins they sell but seem to not care about.

So, what are your "credentials" -- since I don't know you from Adam -- enlighten me. Because, all I've seen here on this forum is your incessant regurgitation of anti-American collector sentiment. Almost every post you make here is judgmental and negative. How am I to perceive who you are besides from your replies here.

Cheers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well thanks for the replies gents. And thank you Tom for your message.

I've been viewing an awful lot of coins for sale recently, and although I got the impression there was an element of tongue in cheek humour in post 2, from what I've seen there also appears to be an element of truth in it too. My opinion is based purely on what I've seen with my own eyes on the American ebay site.

Thanks to the links to the other threads, there's clearly some very interesting information there.

Mmm .. I think I did mention controversy Mynki, though I didn't quite have this in mind!

Anyway, welcome to Predecimal and, yes, there are a lot of interesting threads. And plenty of expertise in British coinage, so feel free to ask any questions you like. It isn't always like this I can assure you!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well thanks for the replies gents. And thank you Tom for your message.

I've been viewing an awful lot of coins for sale recently, and although I got the impression there was an element of tongue in cheek humour in post 2, from what I've seen there also appears to be an element of truth in it too. My opinion is based purely on what I've seen with my own eyes on the American ebay site.

Thanks to the links to the other threads, there's clearly some very interesting information there.

Mmm .. I think I did mention controversy Mynki, though I didn't quite have this in mind!

Anyway, welcome to Predecimal and, yes, there are a lot of interesting threads. And plenty of expertise in British coinage, so feel free to ask any questions you like. It isn't always like this I can assure you!

Good. I have however been on internet forums or bulletin boards as they were in the beginning for some time. I've seen the best and worst they have to offer many times. ;)

I'll look forward to joining in the constructive debates going forward.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well thanks for the replies gents. And thank you Tom for your message.

I've been viewing an awful lot of coins for sale recently, and although I got the impression there was an element of tongue in cheek humour in post 2, from what I've seen there also appears to be an element of truth in it too. My opinion is based purely on what I've seen with my own eyes on the American ebay site.

Thanks to the links to the other threads, there's clearly some very interesting information there.

Mmm .. I think I did mention controversy Mynki, though I didn't quite have this in mind!

Anyway, welcome to Predecimal and, yes, there are a lot of interesting threads. And plenty of expertise in British coinage, so feel free to ask any questions you like. It isn't always like this I can assure you!

Good. I have however been on internet forums or bulletin boards as they were in the beginning for some time. I've seen the best and worst they have to offer many times. ;)

I'll look forward to joining in the constructive debates going forward.

To summarise very briefly - for US coins, PCGS have a much greater worldwide exposure, for British coins I would go with CGS. Hope that helps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×