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davidrj

1863 Open 3 Revisited

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My snipe got blown out of the water on this one,

Yes a nice grade open 3, but what's going on wiyh the shield protrusion opposite the lighthouse? The rocks look a little odd for reverse g too

$%28KGrHqJHJBoFJDswF9otBSTDOkFIpg~~60_57

Doesn't look like a die clash

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Is the 3 over a 2? The surface of the 3 and surrounding field make it worth checking.

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Is the 3 over a 2? The surface of the 3 and surrounding field make it worth checking.

All we have is the seller's photo, so unless a forum member shelled out the $770 we'll never know

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Is the 3 over a 2? The surface of the 3 and surrounding field make it worth checking.

All we have is the seller's photo, so unless a forum member shelled out the $770 we'll never know

We can always go back and check for Feedback in a few weeks to see if anyone knows the buyer

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Only just noticed this thread. The metal around the rocks looks like it might have been damaged slightly, but otherwise it matches my own open 3 (although yours is a better grade!). Here's mine for comparison:

Penny1863%20Open%203%20REV%20500x500.jpg

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My snipe got blown out of the water on this one,

Yes a nice grade open 3, but what's going on wiyh the shield protrusion opposite the lighthouse? The rocks look a little odd for reverse g too

$%28KGrHqJHJBoFJDswF9otBSTDOkFIpg~~60_57

Doesn't look like a die clash

David,

In Michael Gouby's book, he shows a 1863 (BP1863Ab) that has protrusions like the one on the shield above, but they are on the arm, just above the shield.

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Only just noticed this thread. The metal around the rocks looks like it might have been damaged slightly, but otherwise it matches my own open 3 (although yours is a better grade!).

Sadly mine is very low grade, was well and truly outbid on the one in this thread

1863open3.jpg

David,

In Michael Gouby's book, he shows a 1863 (BP1863Ab) that has protrusions like the one on the shield above, but they are on the arm, just above the shield.

My thoughts too Bob, I actually spotted the shield protrusion before I noticed the open 3, the seller only noted the open 3 and edited his listing a day after I i put my snipe in :angry:

Edited by davidrj

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Only just noticed this thread. The metal around the rocks looks like it might have been damaged slightly, but otherwise it matches my own open 3 (although yours is a better grade!).

Sadly mine is very low grade, was well and truly outbid on the one in this thread

1863open3.jpg

David,

In Michael Gouby's book, he shows a 1863 (BP1863Ab) that has protrusions like the one on the shield above, but they are on the arm, just above the shield.

My thoughts too Bob, I actually spotted the shield protrusion before I noticed the open 3, the seller only noted the open 3 and edited his listing a day after I i put my snipe in :angry:

Here's mine David. Yours is better. I got mine off of Azda!

post-509-0-82759200-1381713416_thumb.jpg

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Seeing as my collection is inherited, I'm not completely sure what I've got at the moment, so can someone take a stab at what freeman number mine is :)?? Pwease...

post-8113-0-26441500-1381758792_thumb.jp

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Seeing as my collection is inherited, I'm not completely sure what I've got at the moment, so can someone take a stab at what freeman number mine is :)?? Pwease...

That looks like an 'open 3'. The variety is not actually listed in Freeman. The ordinary 1863 is Freeman 42.

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Seeing as my collection is inherited, I'm not completely sure what I've got at the moment, so can someone take a stab at what freeman number mine is :)?? Pwease...

That looks like an 'open 3'. The variety is not actually listed in Freeman. The ordinary 1863 is Freeman 42.

The Gouby number for the 1863 Open 3 is BP1863B (J + g).

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Seeing as my collection is inherited, I'm not completely sure what I've got at the moment, so can someone take a stab at what freeman number mine is :)?? Pwease...

Sorry, I think that's a standard 3

there are subtle varieties of the normal 3, the open 3 is quite distinct having a curved rather than straight downstroke

open3isit5over3.jpg

Edited by davidrj

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Seeing as my collection is inherited, I'm not completely sure what I've got at the moment, so can someone take a stab at what freeman number mine is :)?? Pwease...

Sorry, I think that's a standard 3

there are subtle varieties of the normal 3, the open 3 is quite distinct having a curved rather than straight downstroke

open3isit5over3.jpg

David, I'm not sure which of your photos (if any), you regard as an open 3? Two of them are 1865's. I've looked at CVarnz's coin and my own and they both look 'open' compared with the 'standard' 1863. I'm also not sure I understand your description of them 'having a curved rather than straight' downstroke. I don't have Gouby to hand so may be missing something?

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I would guess that the coin above the 1865/3 is the open 3, it does seem to curve rather than being a straight diagonal

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I would guess that the coin above the 1865/3 is the open 3, it does seem to curve rather than being a straight diagonal

You could be right. Certainly mine also has that curve, as did the original poster's example. That said, Cvarnz's coin is very 'open', so I'm not sure. It would be interesting to check Gouby later.

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All the other 3s have the angled stroke such that extending it hits the end of the bottom curve. One (presumably the 'open 3') doesn't.

And going back to my original point as to whether this is 3 over 2, there is a diagonal line on my screen across the upper part of the bottom curve which continues into a curved line in the field. Following the curve round you hit the left hand end of the top bar of the 3, and this is in higher relief. Taken in conjunction with a roughly straight inside 'curve' to the lower part of the 3, this would be commensurate with a filled in 2 and overcut with a 3.

Edited by Rob

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I would guess that the coin above the 1865/3 is the open 3, it does seem to curve rather than being a straight diagonal

Yes!

here's Gouby's picturesgouby1863-1.jpg

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All the other 3s have the angled stroke such that extending it hits the end of the bottom curve. One (presumably the 'open 3') doesn't.

And going back to my original point as to whether this is 3 over 2, there is a diagonal line on my screen across the upper part of the bottom curve which continues into a curved line in the field. Following the curve round you hit the left hand end of the top bar of the 3, and this is in higher relief. Taken in conjunction with a roughly straight inside 'curve' to the lower part of the 3, this would be commensurate with a filled in 2 and overcut with a 3.

I'm still not convinced it's not a botched 5/3

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There are at least three different reverse dies used in the production of the open three pennies. Each one is clearly recognisable as different.

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Is there any evidence to support Rob's theory, because if they were old dies being utilised, then it is feasible that a punch (for a 5 or other digit) could have been altered to create a 3 if one was not available. If the 3 is the same across all 3 dies, and it is just the positioning of the digit that differs then it could be a plausible explanation.

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My snipe got blown out of the water on this one,

Yes a nice grade open 3, but what's going on wiyh the shield protrusion opposite the lighthouse? The rocks look a little odd for reverse g too

$%28KGrHqJHJBoFJDswF9otBSTDOkFIpg~~60_57

Doesn't look like a die clash

Without delving into the precise mechanics of the issue, David, sympathies for not getting it. Quite a reasonable grade for such a rare item.

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