Cgs Trial Part 3

[Paulus 1,942]

On balance I remain pleased with the offering CGS have, and have submitted another small batch on 30/9.

So for those of you who still have the appetite for it, here are 6 more coins to guess at the grades CGS will assign (or, if you spot any problems, which ones they might reject!!). You might want to guess at the grade number (1-100) or just the broad grade (GF, VF, EF, etc)

2 of the coins they have already assigned varieties unlisted in ESC or Spink to, and you may also like to try and spot which those are. You can of course hunt them down on the CGS web site, but to discourage you I have not included the UINs this time round!

All comments and guesses very welcome, I have found the comments to the last two trial batches extremely interesting!

Coin 1: G4 Shilling:

[Paulus 1,942]

Coin 2: G4 Halfcrown:

[Paulus 1,942]

Coin 3: Viccy Farthing:

[Paulus 1,942]

Coin 4: Cromwell Shilling:

[Paulus 1,942]

Coin 5: G2 Sixpence:

[Paulus 1,942]

Coin 6: G3 Halfcrown:

[azda 973]

Ohhhhh thats naughty, where'd the Cromwell come from?

[Paulus 1,942]

Ohhhhh thats naughty, where'd the Cromwell come from?

I thought someone might ask that! Thankfully it's got some provenance, being ex Spink September 1991. I got it from an online dealer in Jan 2012.

Edited October 2, 2013 by Paulus

[Nick 325]

I can only guess at the post-1816 silver.

1) High points look a little bright. If not cleaned, might scrape a 70, but 60-65 is more likely.

2) A bit of general wear. Should get a 60.

6) Doesn't look great. Perhaps 40-45.

[Benny who 6]

Is Coin 1 the G4 shilling an unlisted?

[Paulus 1,942]

Is Coin 1 the G4 shilling an unlisted?

Unlisted in ESC and Spink but I think well enough known ...

Have you spotted the variety?

Edited October 2, 2013 by Paulus

[Peckris 579]

On balance I remain pleased with the offering CGS have, and have submitted another small batch on 30/9.

So for those of you who still have the appetite for it, here are 6 more coins to guess at the grades CGS will assign (or, if you spot any problems, which ones they might reject!!). You might want to guess at the grade number (1-100) or just the broad grade (GF, VF, EF, etc)

2 of the coins they have already assigned varieties unlisted in ESC or Spink to, and you may also like to try and spot which those are. You can of course hunt them down on the CGS web site, but to discourage you I have not included the UINs this time round!

All comments and guesses very welcome, I have found the comments to the last two trial batches extremely interesting!

Coin 1: G4 Shilling:

Coin 2: G4 Halfcrown:

Coin 3: Viccy Farthing:

Coin 4: Cromwell Shilling:

Coin 5: G2 Sixpence:

Coin 6: G3 Halfcrown:

1. EF

2. GEF

3. probably GEF or even AU (wouldn't be so high if a penny)

4. GF / NVF

5. VF/GVF (or NEF)

6. reject due to scratches below chins (EF/?? weak reverse, worn or weak strike?)

[Paulus 1,942]

Ohhhhh thats naughty, where'd the Cromwell come from?

I thought someone might ask that! Thankfully it's got some provenance, being ex Spink September 1991. I got it from an online dealer in Jan 2012.

The seller was:

Michael E. Kenny

Chairman at Numismatic Society of Ireland

[azda 973]

Coin 1 GVF or NEF, pearls on the right hand side of the crown are gone

Coin 2 EF

Coin 3 EF/GEF

Coin 4 NVF

Coin 5 VF

Coin 6 GVF at a push

[Peter 615]

Coin 1 Overall EF unfortunate digs on George's neck.
Coin 2 NEF

Coin 3 A/UNC with a few stains which brings in down to EF plus a smidgen on value.
Coin 4 NVF/GVF !!!!
Coin 5 VF/GVF
Coin 6 NEF

The grades are anticipated CGS opinions

Most dealers would add half a grade to these and in normal size they would look fantastic.

Nice coins as usual Paulus.

[Benny who 6]

Is Coin 1 the G4 shilling an unlisted?

Unlisted in ESC and Spink but I think well enough known ...

Have you spotted the variety?

Looks like the BP without stops,cant see the other one though,unless the missing serif on the farthing.

[Paulus 1,942]

Is Coin 1 the G4 shilling an unlisted?

Unlisted in ESC and Spink but I think well enough known ...

Have you spotted the variety?

Looks like the BP without stops,cant see the other one though,unless the missing serif on the farthing.

No stop after B (but there is after P), the other variety they have found I can't quite make out myself and it is on the 1728 ...

[Benny who 6]

Is Coin 1 the G4 shilling an unlisted?

Unlisted in ESC and Spink but I think well enough known ...

Have you spotted the variety?

Looks like the BP without stops,cant see the other one though,unless the missing serif on the farthing.

No stop after B (but there is after P), the other variety they have found I can't quite make out myself and it is on the 1728 ...

The G,was looking at 23837 which has a more progressive die crack through the garter and shield,so it looks like yours is an earlier coin.On saying that 23837 was given a grade of 60,and in my opinion yours is better.

[Paulus 1,942]

Is Coin 1 the G4 shilling an unlisted?

Unlisted in ESC and Spink but I think well enough known ...

Have you spotted the variety?

Looks like the BP without stops,cant see the other one though,unless the missing serif on the farthing.

No stop after B (but there is after P), the other variety they have found I can't quite make out myself and it is on the 1728 ...

The G,was looking at 23837 which has a more progressive die crack through the garter and shield,so it looks like yours is an earlier coin.On saying that 23837 was given a grade of 60,and in my opinion yours is better.

They are currently stating: 'G and E of GEORGIVS struck over lower, weak G and E'

[Coinery 926]

Is Coin 1 the G4 shilling an unlisted?

Unlisted in ESC and Spink but I think well enough known ...

Have you spotted the variety?

Looks like the BP without stops,cant see the other one though,unless the missing serif on the farthing.

No stop after B (but there is after P), the other variety they have found I can't quite make out myself and it is on the 1728 ...

The G,was looking at 23837 which has a more progressive die crack through the garter and shield,so it looks like yours is an earlier coin.On saying that 23837 was given a grade of 60,and in my opinion yours is better.

They are currently stating: 'G and E of GEORGIVS struck over lower, weak G and E'

With all due respect to the submissions, but I am just wondering whether they (CGS) have suddenly spotted a new commercial arm to their existence, and are exploiting it to its full potential?

[Paulus 1,942]

Is Coin 1 the G4 shilling an unlisted?

Unlisted in ESC and Spink but I think well enough known ...

Have you spotted the variety?

Looks like the BP without stops,cant see the other one though,unless the missing serif on the farthing.

No stop after B (but there is after P), the other variety they have found I can't quite make out myself and it is on the 1728 ...

The G,was looking at 23837 which has a more progressive die crack through the garter and shield,so it looks like yours is an earlier coin.On saying that 23837 was given a grade of 60,and in my opinion yours is better.

They are currently stating: 'G and E of GEORGIVS struck over lower, weak G and E'

With all due respect to the submissions, but I am just wondering whether they (CGS) have suddenly spotted a new commercial arm to their existence, and are exploiting it to its full potential?

Interesting thought. They would not attribute my 1707 shilling as 'M over inverted M in MAG', as many of us, including Rob (who sold it to me) thought it was, and it seemed a lot clearer than this 1728.

I guess there are pros and cons to them doing this, would be an interesting debate?

[Coinery 926]

They'll be doing chipped teeth, progressive cracks, and serifs soon! Mark my words, if that's another avenue of revenue scooping, they'll have a finger in it!

Edit: re the M/W coin, and I don't remember it, but if there's any shadow of a doubt whatsoever they won't touch it with a barge pole! HOWEVER, give them an obvious chipped tooth, with which they can please their clients with a 'new variety' status, they'll be on it like Peter and John on a rising trout!

Edited October 3, 2013 by Coinery

[Paulus 1,942]

I wondered what people thought about it from a customer perspective ... I am not in to 'micro-varieties', although the distinction between macro and micro is a grey area and up to the individual ... on the one hand I am pleased if they spot an already known macro variety that I hadn't, or a major/macro variety previously unknown or at any rate unllisted in the major guides, which might appear soon.

On the other hand, for me, if they decide to create a brand new CGS variety, as they did for an 1825 Lion shilling I acquired from Michael Gouby (confirming what Michael thought), they list it as 'Finest Known 1/1' and don't give it a value! Which can limit the market when selling, and could affect the price in both directions ... very interested in what others think on this, especially as in the hammered market every coin is 'unique'!

I know that CGS slabbed coins are a tiny fraction of the market, and will probably always remain so, but I think this aspect of what they are doing is interesting ...

Edited October 3, 2013 by Paulus

[Paulus 1,942]

Here is a close up of the potential 1707 M/W variant, Rob seemed fairly sure and I agree with him ... I am not that bothered, but would like coins to be correctly attributed!

[Coinery 926]

I think the new 'CGS variety' identity is nothing other than a replication of what they are already doing when they provide graded material to the collector market, and we all know about that already! Do you not think there is an eager bunch of CGS league-table collectors all racing around in search of their 'new-found varieties', which we have all seen, but cannot neccesarily sell on (or would neccesarily want to, given their varietal importance) to the general market without either a mention in a book or, more importantly now, a label on a slab...like, c'mon, CGS found it! People are now prompting CGS to look at points of interest in their submissions!

I've only just realised I'm more irrational than I ever was re CGS...they really annoy me nowadays with their prices, timescales, and 'breakthroughs' in numismatics!

It also annoys me that you can buy certain coins from a catalogued victorian collection, and STILL need it slabbed by CGS before you can sell it as such to most of the coin-buying population! Grrrr, rrrr, rr!

Right, that's me done! How the devil ARE you Paulus? no, I hope it all goes well, and it all comes back to your advantage. Your submissions are obviously well thought out, and to each their own! It quite often makes commercial sense...which is bloody annoying!